Oh, this one always makes me cry like a baby. It's a wonderfully constructed episode, but it still depresses the hell out of me. How can I feel any other way, knowing that this is the last time I truly get to see my favorite character, and knowing what they're going to do to him from now on? Sigh.
Discussion question that I've gotten into a lot lately elsewhere: what are everyone's thoughts on what kind of a true series finale this would have made? It's known that it was originally intended to be the end of the show, but when FOX laid the ultimatum down, Chris tacked on the pregnancy ending as a cliffhanger. (Yes, the fainting throughout hints at it, because they'd been meaning to explore Scully's fertility issues from as early on as S5, but having it as the cliffhanger scene was a last-minute decision. The scene was shot with virtually no one knowing what they were about to see.) What I don't know for sure is if it would have still ended with the abduction, were this the series finale; there must have been, as there always are, several drafts of the script.
My question is, who here would have wanted that, and who wouldn't have? I may be a much lesser fan of S8 (and even more so for S9, which... yeah, we won't talk about that now), but I think it would've broken my heart if the whole show had ended with Mulder abducted. Even if they'd immediately gone into a movie within a few months (which wasn't even possible at the time, so it's kind of a moot point), it still would've tainted, I think, the way I saw everything that came before. I'm not sure I could've seen the show the same way.
Anyway, thoughts? I know some people who would've loved and preferred Requiem, even completely as-is, as the series finale, and others -- like me -- who couldn't have handled it.
Requiem as The End_folieadeuxAugust 31 2008, 21:38:06 UTC
I briefly mentioned my thoughts already in the post, but hey! No one else is commenting.
That depends on what they decided to go with. I'm assuming Mulder being abducted was always in the cards, but you bring up a good point about various different scripts. I could NOT accept a finale with Mulder abducted, and you're right, who the hell knows if we would have gotten a movie to tie up that big loose end? In any version, and especially the one that turned out, I could not deal with it as a series ending. Personally.
Others shout about the awfulness of the seasons to come, and yes, it would be nice to erase some of those things. But it wouldn't be enough to me to say goodbye to the series at this particular point.
(My personal pick is Season 8's finale as a series ending.)
Re: Requiem as The EndleucocrystalAugust 31 2008, 22:09:52 UTC
Re: your original post: I welcomed the whole baby thing if it could have been done properly. Oh, how I feel your pains (as I think most of our fellow Philes must). The storyline with probably the most potential, squandered in quite possibly the worst way. I'm quite sure it didn't help that the writing staff was a bunch of apparently clueless males who didn't appear to own a desk calendar. ANYWAY.
I've always assumed that was the case too, regardless of how it ended up playing out in the final script, so I've always sort of mentally rejected Requiem as a series finale, regardless of whatever version they could've gone with besides this one. And honestly, even if all the ideal scenarios fell together; even if we DID get a movie, and DID get it as immediately as possible... the series itself would still have an incredibly depressing, hopeless ending. And I really don't think I could've gone for that. I imagine there would have been quite an uproar amongst fans, and who knows; after an ending like that, the movie may even have tanked!
(My personal pick is Season 8's finale as a series ending.) Same here, though I really wish we could erase all the grievances that came before it. S8 I can describe in two words: squandered potential, all around. Instead of asking the right questions (how did a barren woman become pregnant?), they waste practically the entire season on the absolutely ridiculous, soap operatic question of "who's the daddy?" which was pretty much insulting to anyone who had been watching, ever. They abduct Mulder, and yet -- even though Scully's abduction became a thread that lasted 7 seasons -- they drop it like a hot potato after one measly flashback, because all they were really looking for was an excuse to waste a nice chunk of DD's limited screen time, while cutting into him with power tools. Thanks, Chris, we get the point. And do not even speak to me about the brain disease. DO NOT.
Re: Requiem as The End_folieadeuxAugust 31 2008, 22:52:44 UTC
even if we DID get a movie, and DID get it as immediately as possible... the series itself would still have an incredibly depressing, hopeless ending.
Agreed. I'm not sure if I could take that. Actually, I know for sure that I couldn't. And to be quite honest, I didn't really get into the internet fandom until Season 8 with the show, SO MANY THINGS WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT.
But all in all, Season 8 had so much opportunity for greatness. It just didn't turn out to be all that great.
And do not even speak to me about the brain disease. DO NOT.
Yes on the entire preceding paragraph. Yesyesyes. And I also ignore the brain disease because it's a sucker punch to an already broken...arm or something. Lawd, I hope I don't get that episode.
Re: Requiem as The EndleucocrystalSeptember 1 2008, 04:28:34 UTC
I'm pretty sure I couldn't have, either. It would've ruined the potential for rewatching (and I rewatch XF like crazy!), without feeling tainted and depressed about it, for me.
Season 8 had so much opportunity for greatness. It just didn't turn out to be all that great. LOL understatement of the fandom century, Y/Y?
I ignore the brain disease too, pretty much. thelittlespy came up with the best theory I've heard, back when she was doing her painfully detailed S8/S9 rewatch a while back, in fanwanking around it, and that's now my personal canon, no question.
Re: Requiem as The End_folieadeuxSeptember 1 2008, 17:24:46 UTC
thelittlespy came up with the best theory I've heard, back when she was doing her painfully detailed S8/S9 rewatch a while back, in fanwanking around it, and that's now my personal canon, no question.
Oh rly? I'd love to read that. I wonder if it's in a public post *goes to look*
Re: Requiem as The EndleucocrystalSeptember 2 2008, 01:08:46 UTC
Dammit, I can't find it now (that I'm looking for it specifically, of course)! I think all her S8 and S9 rewatch posts were public though, and really, they're all worth a read if you've got the time. I know it's somewhere in there!
My question is, who here would have wanted that, and who wouldn't have?
I can't imagine anyone possibly being happy with the show ending with Mulder being abducted. It's fitting in a tragic kind of way (much like the original ending of due South, which was supposed to end in the death of the main character) but as fitting as it may have been, I would have been heartbroken. Hell, just watching the episode breaks my heart even though I know it's not the end. I understand the argument asserted a few comments down that it would have made sense as an ending because it gave Mulder the ability to live the truth and Scully the freedom to move on with her life, but from a shipping perspective that wouldn't have satisfied me at all. Actually, I don't think that would have ultimately satisfied me from a character standpoint, either -- regardless of the ship, by the time S7 rolled around Mulder and Scully were so instrinsically linked with each other that to say Mulder would have been happy knowing the truth without Scully and Scully would have been happy without Mulder strikes me as almost emotionally dishonest.
I do think it would be interesting if Mulder being abducted wasn't necessarily the definite original ending. I actually don't hate S8 and S9 (well, I don't hate S8, although I don't love it; I can't say much about S9 because I've only watched William and The Truth), although massively squandered potential definitely sums up S8. I would have been content with Requiem as a series finale if it had ended without Mulder being abducted; if it had appeared that he was going to be taken (ie. if he'd wandered into the circle of light with the other abductees) but had been left behind. Not sure if I would have included Scully's pregnancy, although theoretically I didn't hate it, either; my ultimate problem with the storyline isn't the ridiculous "Who's the daddy?" crap in S8 or even the IVF retcon (well, mostly, but I hate all the retcon, because the IVF plot and even the frigging brain disease would have made for good television if they'd been in S7 and it had been vastly different), but the whole adoption. But now I'm veering off topic. So, yeah. While I'm not the biggest fan of S8 and S9, I'm glad the show didn't end with Requiem, because I wouldn't have been able to handle it. And we wouldn't have gotten IWTB, and I love IWTB, so. While it would have been nice for the series to go out on a creative high, ultimately I would have found it far too depressing.
It's fitting in a tragic kind of way but as fitting as it may have been, I would have been heartbroken. Yes, exactly! In a narrative sense, it's very poetic, but it doesn't break my heart any less for it. I just hate the thought of XF being turned so completely into a tragedy, for a series that's meant to be about hope. I definitely agree also that, ship or no ship, it was too tragic for both characters after those seven years together. It was long since it was Mulder's journey alone.
Squandered potential all around; that pretty much sums up S8 for me. Brain disease? Who's the daddy? Mulder shafted out of the X-files not with a bang, but a whimper? Mulder's character underwent so much crap at the mercy of Chris's reactionary writing and in service of raising up the new team, it often sickens me to think of it, even though I don't hate S8 entirely either.
And we wouldn't have gotten IWTB, and I love IWTB, so. While it would have been nice for the series to go out on a creative high, ultimately I would have found it far too depressing. Word, on both points! I'm glad it's not just me.
Take away the ending with Mulder being abducted, and I think Requiem would've been a great series finale. The fact that they're coming back to the place of their first case together, the chance for us to see how much they've grown and changed over the past seven years, the whole "closing the circle" thing is brilliant. I at least love it, this episode is one of my all-time favourites.
But ending the show with Mulder getting abducted would've been horrible, I'm glad that didn't happen. How depressing to leave our duo like this... oh dear. I don't even want to think about it. There's a lot that went wrong in seasons 8 and 9, no doubt about that, but I'm one of the few who didn't hate the last two seasons, so I'm glad we got them. And like someone else said in a comment below, otherwise we probably wouldn't have gotten IWTB and damn, am I happy I got to see that movie and experience the fandom explosion this summer? I sure am.
Take away the ending with Mulder being abducted, and I think Requiem would've been a great series finale. My conditional thoughts exactly. And word on pretty much everything else, thematically. It really does all come back so perfectly. I'm a sucker for nostalgia (which is why the final scene of The Truth gets to me so bad as well).
Discussion question that I've gotten into a lot lately elsewhere: what are everyone's thoughts on what kind of a true series finale this would have made? It's known that it was originally intended to be the end of the show, but when FOX laid the ultimatum down, Chris tacked on the pregnancy ending as a cliffhanger. (Yes, the fainting throughout hints at it, because they'd been meaning to explore Scully's fertility issues from as early on as S5, but having it as the cliffhanger scene was a last-minute decision. The scene was shot with virtually no one knowing what they were about to see.) What I don't know for sure is if it would have still ended with the abduction, were this the series finale; there must have been, as there always are, several drafts of the script.
My question is, who here would have wanted that, and who wouldn't have? I may be a much lesser fan of S8 (and even more so for S9, which... yeah, we won't talk about that now), but I think it would've broken my heart if the whole show had ended with Mulder abducted. Even if they'd immediately gone into a movie within a few months (which wasn't even possible at the time, so it's kind of a moot point), it still would've tainted, I think, the way I saw everything that came before. I'm not sure I could've seen the show the same way.
Anyway, thoughts? I know some people who would've loved and preferred Requiem, even completely as-is, as the series finale, and others -- like me -- who couldn't have handled it.
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That depends on what they decided to go with. I'm assuming Mulder being abducted was always in the cards, but you bring up a good point about various different scripts. I could NOT accept a finale with Mulder abducted, and you're right, who the hell knows if we would have gotten a movie to tie up that big loose end? In any version, and especially the one that turned out, I could not deal with it as a series ending. Personally.
Others shout about the awfulness of the seasons to come, and yes, it would be nice to erase some of those things. But it wouldn't be enough to me to say goodbye to the series at this particular point.
(My personal pick is Season 8's finale as a series ending.)
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Oh, how I feel your pains (as I think most of our fellow Philes must). The storyline with probably the most potential, squandered in quite possibly the worst way. I'm quite sure it didn't help that the writing staff was a bunch of apparently clueless males who didn't appear to own a desk calendar. ANYWAY.
I've always assumed that was the case too, regardless of how it ended up playing out in the final script, so I've always sort of mentally rejected Requiem as a series finale, regardless of whatever version they could've gone with besides this one. And honestly, even if all the ideal scenarios fell together; even if we DID get a movie, and DID get it as immediately as possible... the series itself would still have an incredibly depressing, hopeless ending. And I really don't think I could've gone for that. I imagine there would have been quite an uproar amongst fans, and who knows; after an ending like that, the movie may even have tanked!
(My personal pick is Season 8's finale as a series ending.)
Same here, though I really wish we could erase all the grievances that came before it. S8 I can describe in two words: squandered potential, all around. Instead of asking the right questions (how did a barren woman become pregnant?), they waste practically the entire season on the absolutely ridiculous, soap operatic question of "who's the daddy?" which was pretty much insulting to anyone who had been watching, ever. They abduct Mulder, and yet -- even though Scully's abduction became a thread that lasted 7 seasons -- they drop it like a hot potato after one measly flashback, because all they were really looking for was an excuse to waste a nice chunk of DD's limited screen time, while cutting into him with power tools. Thanks, Chris, we get the point. And do not even speak to me about the brain disease. DO NOT.
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Agreed. I'm not sure if I could take that. Actually, I know for sure that I couldn't. And to be quite honest, I didn't really get into the internet fandom until Season 8 with the show, SO MANY THINGS WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT.
But all in all, Season 8 had so much opportunity for greatness. It just didn't turn out to be all that great.
And do not even speak to me about the brain disease. DO NOT.
Yes on the entire preceding paragraph. Yesyesyes. And I also ignore the brain disease because it's a sucker punch to an already broken...arm or something. Lawd, I hope I don't get that episode.
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Season 8 had so much opportunity for greatness. It just didn't turn out to be all that great.
LOL understatement of the fandom century, Y/Y?
I ignore the brain disease too, pretty much. thelittlespy came up with the best theory I've heard, back when she was doing her painfully detailed S8/S9 rewatch a while back, in fanwanking around it, and that's now my personal canon, no question.
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Oh rly? I'd love to read that. I wonder if it's in a public post *goes to look*
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I can't imagine anyone possibly being happy with the show ending with Mulder being abducted. It's fitting in a tragic kind of way (much like the original ending of due South, which was supposed to end in the death of the main character) but as fitting as it may have been, I would have been heartbroken. Hell, just watching the episode breaks my heart even though I know it's not the end. I understand the argument asserted a few comments down that it would have made sense as an ending because it gave Mulder the ability to live the truth and Scully the freedom to move on with her life, but from a shipping perspective that wouldn't have satisfied me at all. Actually, I don't think that would have ultimately satisfied me from a character standpoint, either -- regardless of the ship, by the time S7 rolled around Mulder and Scully were so instrinsically linked with each other that to say Mulder would have been happy knowing the truth without Scully and Scully would have been happy without Mulder strikes me as almost emotionally dishonest.
I do think it would be interesting if Mulder being abducted wasn't necessarily the definite original ending. I actually don't hate S8 and S9 (well, I don't hate S8, although I don't love it; I can't say much about S9 because I've only watched William and The Truth), although massively squandered potential definitely sums up S8. I would have been content with Requiem as a series finale if it had ended without Mulder being abducted; if it had appeared that he was going to be taken (ie. if he'd wandered into the circle of light with the other abductees) but had been left behind. Not sure if I would have included Scully's pregnancy, although theoretically I didn't hate it, either; my ultimate problem with the storyline isn't the ridiculous "Who's the daddy?" crap in S8 or even the IVF retcon (well, mostly, but I hate all the retcon, because the IVF plot and even the frigging brain disease would have made for good television if they'd been in S7 and it had been vastly different), but the whole adoption. But now I'm veering off topic. So, yeah. While I'm not the biggest fan of S8 and S9, I'm glad the show didn't end with Requiem, because I wouldn't have been able to handle it. And we wouldn't have gotten IWTB, and I love IWTB, so. While it would have been nice for the series to go out on a creative high, ultimately I would have found it far too depressing.
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Yes, exactly! In a narrative sense, it's very poetic, but it doesn't break my heart any less for it. I just hate the thought of XF being turned so completely into a tragedy, for a series that's meant to be about hope. I definitely agree also that, ship or no ship, it was too tragic for both characters after those seven years together. It was long since it was Mulder's journey alone.
Squandered potential all around; that pretty much sums up S8 for me. Brain disease? Who's the daddy? Mulder shafted out of the X-files not with a bang, but a whimper? Mulder's character underwent so much crap at the mercy of Chris's reactionary writing and in service of raising up the new team, it often sickens me to think of it, even though I don't hate S8 entirely either.
And we wouldn't have gotten IWTB, and I love IWTB, so. While it would have been nice for the series to go out on a creative high, ultimately I would have found it far too depressing.
Word, on both points! I'm glad it's not just me.
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But ending the show with Mulder getting abducted would've been horrible, I'm glad that didn't happen. How depressing to leave our duo like this... oh dear. I don't even want to think about it.
There's a lot that went wrong in seasons 8 and 9, no doubt about that, but I'm one of the few who didn't hate the last two seasons, so I'm glad we got them. And like someone else said in a comment below, otherwise we probably wouldn't have gotten IWTB and damn, am I happy I got to see that movie and experience the fandom explosion this summer? I sure am.
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My conditional thoughts exactly. And word on pretty much everything else, thematically. It really does all come back so perfectly. I'm a sucker for nostalgia (which is why the final scene of The Truth gets to me so bad as well).
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Yes! Same here. So much love for that scene.
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