Ridiculous IchiHime Arguments
Let me start by saying I have nothing against Ichigo x Orihime as a pairing, or Orihime as a character. I maintain that there is zero possibility of Ichigo x Orihime ever happening. I don't hate the pairing, because I cannot imagine it at all. For that reason, I find shippers who believe it has a chance of actually becoming canon fascinating. I've seen some interesting arguments, most of them inaccurate interpretations of the manga (because there is only one IchiHime moment in all 500+ chapters, the rest are only perceived as IchiHime if you're not paying attention or willfully twisting it into what you want it to be), a lot of them "what ifs," and a few really crazy ones. I've read enough commentary on the misinterpreted scenes to not feel the need to comment on them myself, but I've really got to say something about the crazy arguments.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #1: The Volume 49 Poem is about Orihime
Oh man, when I saw someone make this argument, my reaction pretty much looked like this:
This idea is so ridiculous, it actually makes me mad.
The poem is as follows:
僕はついてゆけるだろうか
boku wa tsuite yukeru darou ka I wonder, can I keep up with it?
君のいない世界のスピードに
kimi no inai sekai no supiido ni The speed of the world without you in it.
in japanese, kana(かな) is one way of saying 'i wonder' or express uncertainty over the future/what is he supposed to do now which would have more than two answers usually
明日雪が降るかな。.....i wonder whether it will snow tomorrow or not--yes/no.
何を着ていこうかな。....i wonder what to wear?---whatever thing you want.
これいくらかな。....i wonder how much is this?--well the price is.
if you can't see where i'm getting at is this....'kana' gives impression that the speaker is wondering of something that is to come on the way(foreseened) or is in present. speaker knows it is there/on the way but still wonders what to do with it.
Just because the character said the words "I wonder" it means that he/she was still with that person.It could be he/she is trying to live a normal life without that person,but somehow,as time goes by,he/she is starting to realize it that he/she couldn't live without him/her.Ichigo at that time is trying his best to live a normal life.But unfortunately,after 17 months without Rukia visiting the Human World,he couldn't help but voice out in his thought,that she haven't even visited once.It is clear that Ichigo,is somehow waiting for her,but doesn't want to admit it to anyone.When Keigo brought up Rukia during their talk,he was talking about Ichigo's plan in the future.When Ichigo said that he doesn't missed Rukia,his expression tells the opposite.When Isshin told him about dying,Ichigo answered that he might just go to SS.What was that mean?It means,that he thought that when he dies,he's going to the SS anyway.Ichigo is not interested in his future anymore,he seems like simply going along with the speed of life,as if waiting for his time to end one day,and then,he'll go to SS.
to put it shortly......if in the context of rukia not being in the world for 17 months, and he is still wondering IN HIS MIND whether he can or cannot 'kana' would have been aptly used.
'darouka' the can/cannot is obviously for something that is not to be foreseen and unexpected. it's like::
i'm not sure whether i can or cannot keep up with the speed of the world that doesn't have you in it. i can keep up with the speed of the world when you are in it.....but when (OR IF) you are not in it, i'm not sure whether i can'
which leads to another question....can 'kana' be used instead for orihime? ichigo expects orihime to be taken out of this world from him? no. he doesn't think orihime will leave him anytime soon, but if she did......i leave this to you guys to answer.
This literally makes no sense at all. First, if the use of the word "darou" suggest an inevitable future, why is it that Ichigo is so certain he will lose Orihime? What would cause him to believe that? And, if he truly was worried about such a thing, why is there absolutely no reference to it in any of the chapters encompassed in Volume 49?
Also, notice that this sentence is NOT IN THE CONDITIONAL. The poem is NOT "I wonder, could I keep up with it?" If Ichigo is for some strange reason considering a future in which Orihime is "taken away from him," shouldn't this be in the conditional since there is nothing to suggest this is going to happen?
The fact of the matter is, the poem is in the present or definite future tense. Meaning Ichigo is thinking if he can keep up with the speed of the world without someone who is already gone, ie RUKIA.
point 2:
the poem is a monologue of his mind. he should know what he is facing, how he is facing ESPECIALLY when he is experiencing it now. AND HE SHOULD BE HONEST. UNLESS it's something that he did not experience, he would wonder what is like to be.
No. You're missing the point of the poem. Ichigo is going through his life, and without Rukia in his world, he doesn't feel right. He feels like he can't keep up with it. He's been feeling this way for 17 months, and he's beginning to wonder whether it's possible for him to get used to a life without Rukia, whether it's possible for him to "keep up with the speed of the world without her," because for the last 17 months, it has not seemed that way. So, Ichigo has been feeling like he can't keep up with the speed of the world, and he is wondering if he is always going to feel this way.
Again, if he were imaging a world without Orihime and how that would make him feel, it would be in the conditional because Orihime hasn't left his world, and has never shown any indication that she is going to later.
rukia's leaving is something that he experienced and he's still not sure to say that he cannot keep up with the speed of the world where she's not in it? this is not the first time rukia is separated from him.
What if Kubo were to intend to meant it as Orihime; Orihime's leaving is not something that he truly experienced? hence he is not sure whether he can do it if it really happened?
It's the first time Rukia has been separated from him without any hope of seeing her again. The first time she was taken away, he got pretty emo until he found out he could rescue her. And then he got emo again when he realized that rescuing her might not mean she would return to him for good. (And then Orihime cheered him up; that was the one and only IchiHime moment I was referring to earlier).
Also, epic fail because Ichigo has also already been separated from Orihime! Remember that time when she was kidnapped? If, by your logic, the poem cannot be about Rukia because he has already experienced separation from her when she was taken away to Soul Society, then how can it possibly be about Orihime, when he was also separated from her when she was taken away to Hueco Mundo?! Seriously, I just can't with this logic fail.
Finally, this person questions whether or not the poem is romantic and twists it into IchiHime. First of all, I will say that whether or not it is romantic is open to interpretation. However, Ichigo is basically saying that he doesn't think he can properly function without Rukia, the subject of the poem. I don't know if it can get any more romantic than "I can't live without you"/"I need you in my life to function," or whether any girl would want to be second to the girl he is referring to, so I won't take that any further. Instead I will focus on what this person has to say about the romantic aspect of this poem.
point 3
speed of the world......is it romantic word to be used? depending on how it is used. two type of speed.....fast and slow.
the world is fast paced, i have so many things to think about and settled. i don't have time to breath. there you came and asked me to sit and laugh, you make me forgot my problems for a while as you make me eat those throwaway breads....i breath a little, my mind cleared a little.
or
the world is moving slow snail paced. i have nothing to do but wait for the life to pass slowly uninterestingly. you spiced up my life. you come with weird jokes and funny gags. i nearly jumped and got heartattack when you do something dangerous.
which world speed do you think ichigo's world is in book 49 that he must have Rukia, and how can she help him deal with it.......romantically?
make it a fast world so that ichigo wouldn't feel lethargic....always feeling adventurous fighting hollows and demons.....is that even romantic??
make it a slow world so that ichigo....i don't know.....i can't imagined rukia trying to make ichigo stop everything, forget what his burden are.....ichigo, you go and rest while i fight the hollows for you......is that even romantic??
Ok, I really think we are reading two different mangas. Where in chapter 429 does Ichigo "forget his problems" or have a "clear mind," because in the manga I'M reading, he's really troubled and tense. Nothing in this scene indicates that it helps Ichigo deal with his problems in any way. Please take off your shipper goggles and throw them away. As for the "weird jokes and funny gags," please give me just ONE example of Ichigo finding anything Orihime does amusing, because I sure as hell can't find a single one. And about the "heart attack," I am guessing you're referring to this scene:
Notice how Tatsuki is also freaking out, alongside Ichigo. Ichigo notes all the way back in chapter three that Orihime does things that make you worry. As in, not just him, but EVERYONE. (Really, though, did you see what she did there? I think anyone in their right mind would freak out.) There is no romantic connotation here.
In any case, what exactly Kubo means be "I wonder if I can keep up with the speed of the world" is open to interpretation, but these two interpretations are invalid for the reasons stated. I thought it was funny when the deluded IchiHime shippers (as in, not all of them) were desperately clinging to the "it's totally about Zangetsu!" argument, but that made way more sense than this one.
Romantic or not, the poem is about Rukia. Case closed.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #2: Kubo would never make Orihime love Ichigo just to get her heart broken!
The only thing I need to say to the people who assert this is: is Bleach the only thing you've ever read/watched? Because I've seen quite a few stories in which the unrequited love remains unrequited and the other person never reciprocates. I'm not even going to bother with examples because there are SO MANY. There are even some in the manga itself:
Hinamori --> Aizen
Rukia --> Kaien
Hitsugaya --> Hinamori
And I'm sure there are more that aren't coming to mind right now. None of these people end up together (although I suppose Hitsugaya still has a chance).
Seriously, you really think that this is a valid argument? I can think of two reasons for Orihime's feelings to exist that have nothing to do with Ichigo returning them:
1. Character development.
We've already seen this somewhat with her, with her overcoming some low self-esteem and learning that she needs to depend less on Ichigo. As her world still seems to revolve around him, there is still plenty of room for her to grow, especially if she moves on from her love for him and becomes even more independent. She might not even get her heart broken, but realize he's not the one for her and move on without it hurting her too much.
2. ICHIRUKI
I gotta say, when I was reading Ugly and Trifle, I was blown away by how unsubtle Kubo was being about IchiRuki. He was clearly using Orihime's jealousy to bring out the chaning relationship and evolving feelings between these two.
Anyway, more epic fail: what about Ishida? Ishida has feelings for Orihime. Using your own argument, Kubo would never make Ishida like Orihime only to have him get his heart broken!
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #3: The bond between Ichigo and Orihime is stronger than the one between Ichigo x Rukia because Ichigo spend a total of more hours around Orihime!
I just...what?
The entirety of the Bleach fandom, even nearly all IchiHime shippers, acknowledge that Ichigo and Rukia she a very beautiful, deep, strong bond that is integral to the story of Bleach. Even though not everyone believes they harbor romantic feelings for one another, they see how strong their bond is.
Orihime and Ichigo have no such bond.
They are nakama, yes. Orihime is important to Ichigo, yes. But their bond isn't any more special than the bond Ichigo has with Chad, Ishida, even Tatsuki. Orihime still doesn't know how to cheer Ichigo up when he's down like Rukia does. Rukia dried Ichigo's rain, she's his ray or light, the person who gave him the power to protect everyone. Orihime is a close friend, a nakama, but she is nowhere near as close to him as Rukia is, and their bond is incomparable to the bond between him and Rukia. Obviously.
Spending time together doesn't guarantee anything. It's about QUALITY, non quantity. If you don't have romantic feelings for someone, no amount of time spent with them is going to lead to you dating them. This argument only works under the condition that the two people don't really know each other at first, then as they spend more time together and get to know one another better, they begin to discover that they like one another. Too bad for IH shippers, this is clearly NOT the case for Ichigo x Orihime, as they've had plenty of time to get to know one another better (re: 17 months without Rukia or world-ending wars to get in the way), and they're still not together. What are you IH shippers waiting for, seriously? Ichigo has never shown any romantic interest in Orihime and he never will. Deal with it.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #4: Ichigo is secretly in love with Orihime!
There is exactly zero evidence of this. It's enough of a stretch to say that Ichigo might develop feelings for later, but to say he loves her already is just...well, crazy. I've talked in previous posts about how the argument "Ichigo treats Orihime nicer than he treats everyone else, so therefore he must love her" is invalid, so I won't elaborate on that again. Orihime is a nakama to him, and nothing more. She is not "more than a friend, less than a lover," like Rukia is. And there are no interactions between the two of them, no moments were Ichigo is thinking specifically of her (as in, not her lumped in with Chad and/or Ishida and the rest of his nakamas) that indicate he is harboring secret feelings for her.
While IchiRuki is not canon, there are plenty of moments that one can refer to that hint towards Ichigo and Rukia possibly developing feelings for one another already (see my previous post). The same is simply not true for Orihime and Ichigo. And if you are looking beyond the obvious (as in, a love confession like Orihime's FLOL speech), you've got to take into account of the the "IchiRuki" moments as well as the ones you are considering to be IchiHime. Of course, some IchiHime fans assert that there is nothing romantic about Ichigo and Rukia's bond, that they are simply family or friends, and to those people I say: read my previous post.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #5: IchiHime is most likely to happen because it would be the easiest route.
Sadly, I've seen IchiRuki fans agreeing with this as well.
First, what is meant by "easy"? I'm assuming it means Orihime loves Ichigo already and has admitted that much, so all that's left is Ichigo's feelings, therefore Kubo is already 50% done if he wants to pair Ichigo up with someone. I find this idea laughable because it makes Kubo sound like some lazy mangaka who doesn't want to put in the effort and just goes with whatever requires the least amount of effort. Kubo isn't going to do what's "easy," he's going to do what he intended when he thought up the story. I'm sure Kubo has a plan for how he is going to end the manga, whether it is with IchiRuki or no pairing at all. It's not like he's Stephenie Meyer a terrible writer who only realizes halfway through his work that he needs to add an important element in. If he intends a certain pairing, he is going to go with it because it's what he envisioned for the story, not because it'll take less time to do. It's not like he's doing this as a chore or for someone else...it's his own story!
Second, IchiHime would NOT be the "easy" route! It would actually be much more difficult than IchiRuki, because he's on the final arc, and he spent the last 10+ years building up the IchiRuki bond, throwing in hints that their relationship is steadily growing in the direction of becoming romantic, and has shown that for Ichigo, Orihime is forever friend-zoned. To make IchiHime happen, he would somehow need to have Ichigo develop feelings for Orihime (because see Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #4, Ichigo DOESN'T ALREADY HAVE FEELINGS FOR ORIHIME), while simultaneously downplaying the IchiRuki bond because how is Orihime (or any other woman, for that matter) going to compete with the woman who is Ichigo's ray of light, the one who dried the rain, and the one who always knows what to say to get him out of whatever funk he's in unless he makes her less important to him? No, it would be much easier to have Ichigo and Rukia simultaneous realize that they love one another and need to be with one another. It wouldn't take very much because they are already so important to one another that the shove into romance would not take much development. The same can simply not be said for IchiHime, because even if one side is at 100%, the other is at 0%. If we take "more than friends, less than lovers" literally, then Ichigo and Rukia are both at least at 50%, and since that interview is 5+ years old, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they're both at 75%.
Those number are obviously silly and just an estimation, but the fact remains that Kubo is not going to do IchiHime just because it's "easier," partly because it's actually not the one that's "easier."
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #6: Ichigo treats Orihime special and feels the need to protect her because of the tough life she has led!
You've been reading too much fanfiction. Ichigo doesn't feel that he "needs" to protect Orihime for any special reason, he just WANTS to protect her like he wants to protect all of his friends. The difference between her and the rest of his friends is that she is not a fighter, and while her heeling powers are amazing, she is the one that needs the most protecting because she is the least capable of fighting for herself. Ichigo promised to protect her and not Chad or Tatsuki because it was only Orihime who got hurt because he failed. Chad and Tatsuki went down before Ichigo even got there, it was only Orihime who got hurt because Ichigo freaked out over his inner hollow. Therefore she's the only one that he needs to apologize to (though I suppose he could apologize to Chad and Tatsuki for not getting there fast enough, but that's a completely different issue).
And where did this nonsense about "Ichigo is concerned over the tough life Orihime's had" come from? Her history is brought up in chapter 3-4 and never revisited ever again. No where does Ichigo comment on her past and say that it makes him want to watch out for her. Ichigo wants to protect Orihime because she is his friend, and the most vulnerable of his friends. It has absolutely nothing to do with her life story.
These kind of arguments (along with the misinterpretation of the Dome IchiHime Epic FAIL) irritate me the most because the shippers that make them don't even want to be reading Bleach. They are trying to make it into a knight-in-shining-armor-rescues-beautiful-sweet-princess story (which I am a big fan of), WHICH IT IS NOT. If that's what you want, go watch a Disney movie (again, huge fan), but please stop trying to turn Bleach into something that it clearly is not.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #7: Ichigo will choose Orihime because she has a better body than Rukia and would be more fun to have sex with!
I am downright offended by this "argument." Ichigo isn't a pervert or a manwhore; he would never "choose" a girl based on her physical attributes. The Ichigo from that manga that I'M reading isn't going to make a list of pros and cons for Orihime and Rukia and choose one based on the best result, he's going to choose the girl that he loves over the girl that he does not love, no matter how huge the unloved girl's boobs are. Anyone who spews this nonsense is being disrespectful to Ichigo, Orihime, Rukia, and most definitely Kubo.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #8: Ichigo will fall for Orihime because she looks and/or acts like Ichigo's mother!
Some IchiRuki fans say this is gross because it means Ichigo has a Oedipus complex, while the IchiHime fans are saying it is totally a hint for their pairing because studies have shown that women/men tend to look for sposes that have the traits of their father/mother if they had a good relationship with their parents.
Thing is, the IchiHime fans DO have a point about the science, it's true, and it's not necessarily gross.
However, their argument that this bodes well for their pairing holds no water. What do they expect to happen? For Ichigo to one day wake up and realize that Orihime is just like his mom and therefore he must love her? IF Ichigo didn't know her very well I would say that it's a possibility that he develop feelings for her once he gets to know her better, but he is already close enough to her to have started seeing the similarities between her and his mom IF they had any bearing on his romantic decisions. Not only that, but if Masaki and Orihime having looks and personality in common were important or something Kubo really wanted to emphasize (like, say, Ichigo and Rukia's thoughts about one another during the SS arc), he would have characters pointing it out. But he hasn't.
As for the science argument, this isn't real life, it's fiction. Just because sometimes in real life men fall for women who are similar to their mothers does NOT mean that there is any chance that will happen in Bleach. Kubo doesn't have to follow this trend if he doesn't want to. And as there are no hints for this anywhere in the manga, it's safe to say that it's never going to be brought up.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #9: Karin ships Ichigo with Orihime!
Sigh. Let me direction you here, since you clearly don't understand this concept.
Everyone, including Ichigo, knows that Orihime is beautiful, smart, and has lots of fanboys. Karin didn't say, "I won't be impressed until Ichigo brings Orihime home," she said "I won't be impressed until Ichigo brings A GIRL LIKE Orihime home." As in, a girl who is as popular as Orihime, and, in Karin's eyes, as beautiful in that way. Does Karin think that Orihime is more beautiful that Rukia? Seems so. Does that have any impact on whom Ichigo perceives as more beautiful? Absolutely not. Karin doesn't want Orihime in particular for Ichigo, just a girl who is as popular and beautiful as her. Considering this is never brought up again, it was obviously only used in a comical context, so using it as a "proof" for IchiHime is incredibly stupid.
That's all for now. I will probably add in more as I see them.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #1: The Volume 49 Poem is about Orihime
Oh man, when I saw someone make this argument, my reaction pretty much looked like this:
This idea is so ridiculous, it actually makes me mad.
The poem is as follows:
僕はついてゆけるだろうか
boku wa tsuite yukeru darou ka I wonder, can I keep up with it?
君のいない世界のスピードに
kimi no inai sekai no supiido ni The speed of the world without you in it.
in japanese, kana(かな) is one way of saying 'i wonder' or express uncertainty over the future/what is he supposed to do now which would have more than two answers usually
明日雪が降るかな。.....i wonder whether it will snow tomorrow or not--yes/no.
何を着ていこうかな。....i wonder what to wear?---whatever thing you want.
これいくらかな。....i wonder how much is this?--well the price is.
if you can't see where i'm getting at is this....'kana' gives impression that the speaker is wondering of something that is to come on the way(foreseened) or is in present. speaker knows it is there/on the way but still wonders what to do with it.
Just because the character said the words "I wonder" it means that he/she was still with that person.It could be he/she is trying to live a normal life without that person,but somehow,as time goes by,he/she is starting to realize it that he/she couldn't live without him/her.Ichigo at that time is trying his best to live a normal life.But unfortunately,after 17 months without Rukia visiting the Human World,he couldn't help but voice out in his thought,that she haven't even visited once.It is clear that Ichigo,is somehow waiting for her,but doesn't want to admit it to anyone.When Keigo brought up Rukia during their talk,he was talking about Ichigo's plan in the future.When Ichigo said that he doesn't missed Rukia,his expression tells the opposite.When Isshin told him about dying,Ichigo answered that he might just go to SS.What was that mean?It means,that he thought that when he dies,he's going to the SS anyway.Ichigo is not interested in his future anymore,he seems like simply going along with the speed of life,as if waiting for his time to end one day,and then,he'll go to SS.
to put it shortly......if in the context of rukia not being in the world for 17 months, and he is still wondering IN HIS MIND whether he can or cannot 'kana' would have been aptly used.
'darouka' the can/cannot is obviously for something that is not to be foreseen and unexpected. it's like::
i'm not sure whether i can or cannot keep up with the speed of the world that doesn't have you in it. i can keep up with the speed of the world when you are in it.....but when (OR IF) you are not in it, i'm not sure whether i can'
which leads to another question....can 'kana' be used instead for orihime? ichigo expects orihime to be taken out of this world from him? no. he doesn't think orihime will leave him anytime soon, but if she did......i leave this to you guys to answer.
This literally makes no sense at all. First, if the use of the word "darou" suggest an inevitable future, why is it that Ichigo is so certain he will lose Orihime? What would cause him to believe that? And, if he truly was worried about such a thing, why is there absolutely no reference to it in any of the chapters encompassed in Volume 49?
Also, notice that this sentence is NOT IN THE CONDITIONAL. The poem is NOT "I wonder, could I keep up with it?" If Ichigo is for some strange reason considering a future in which Orihime is "taken away from him," shouldn't this be in the conditional since there is nothing to suggest this is going to happen?
The fact of the matter is, the poem is in the present or definite future tense. Meaning Ichigo is thinking if he can keep up with the speed of the world without someone who is already gone, ie RUKIA.
point 2:
the poem is a monologue of his mind. he should know what he is facing, how he is facing ESPECIALLY when he is experiencing it now. AND HE SHOULD BE HONEST. UNLESS it's something that he did not experience, he would wonder what is like to be.
No. You're missing the point of the poem. Ichigo is going through his life, and without Rukia in his world, he doesn't feel right. He feels like he can't keep up with it. He's been feeling this way for 17 months, and he's beginning to wonder whether it's possible for him to get used to a life without Rukia, whether it's possible for him to "keep up with the speed of the world without her," because for the last 17 months, it has not seemed that way. So, Ichigo has been feeling like he can't keep up with the speed of the world, and he is wondering if he is always going to feel this way.
Again, if he were imaging a world without Orihime and how that would make him feel, it would be in the conditional because Orihime hasn't left his world, and has never shown any indication that she is going to later.
rukia's leaving is something that he experienced and he's still not sure to say that he cannot keep up with the speed of the world where she's not in it? this is not the first time rukia is separated from him.
What if Kubo were to intend to meant it as Orihime; Orihime's leaving is not something that he truly experienced? hence he is not sure whether he can do it if it really happened?
It's the first time Rukia has been separated from him without any hope of seeing her again. The first time she was taken away, he got pretty emo until he found out he could rescue her. And then he got emo again when he realized that rescuing her might not mean she would return to him for good. (And then Orihime cheered him up; that was the one and only IchiHime moment I was referring to earlier).
Also, epic fail because Ichigo has also already been separated from Orihime! Remember that time when she was kidnapped? If, by your logic, the poem cannot be about Rukia because he has already experienced separation from her when she was taken away to Soul Society, then how can it possibly be about Orihime, when he was also separated from her when she was taken away to Hueco Mundo?! Seriously, I just can't with this logic fail.
Finally, this person questions whether or not the poem is romantic and twists it into IchiHime. First of all, I will say that whether or not it is romantic is open to interpretation. However, Ichigo is basically saying that he doesn't think he can properly function without Rukia, the subject of the poem. I don't know if it can get any more romantic than "I can't live without you"/"I need you in my life to function," or whether any girl would want to be second to the girl he is referring to, so I won't take that any further. Instead I will focus on what this person has to say about the romantic aspect of this poem.
point 3
speed of the world......is it romantic word to be used? depending on how it is used. two type of speed.....fast and slow.
the world is fast paced, i have so many things to think about and settled. i don't have time to breath. there you came and asked me to sit and laugh, you make me forgot my problems for a while as you make me eat those throwaway breads....i breath a little, my mind cleared a little.
or
the world is moving slow snail paced. i have nothing to do but wait for the life to pass slowly uninterestingly. you spiced up my life. you come with weird jokes and funny gags. i nearly jumped and got heartattack when you do something dangerous.
which world speed do you think ichigo's world is in book 49 that he must have Rukia, and how can she help him deal with it.......romantically?
make it a fast world so that ichigo wouldn't feel lethargic....always feeling adventurous fighting hollows and demons.....is that even romantic??
make it a slow world so that ichigo....i don't know.....i can't imagined rukia trying to make ichigo stop everything, forget what his burden are.....ichigo, you go and rest while i fight the hollows for you......is that even romantic??
Ok, I really think we are reading two different mangas. Where in chapter 429 does Ichigo "forget his problems" or have a "clear mind," because in the manga I'M reading, he's really troubled and tense. Nothing in this scene indicates that it helps Ichigo deal with his problems in any way. Please take off your shipper goggles and throw them away. As for the "weird jokes and funny gags," please give me just ONE example of Ichigo finding anything Orihime does amusing, because I sure as hell can't find a single one. And about the "heart attack," I am guessing you're referring to this scene:
Notice how Tatsuki is also freaking out, alongside Ichigo. Ichigo notes all the way back in chapter three that Orihime does things that make you worry. As in, not just him, but EVERYONE. (Really, though, did you see what she did there? I think anyone in their right mind would freak out.) There is no romantic connotation here.
In any case, what exactly Kubo means be "I wonder if I can keep up with the speed of the world" is open to interpretation, but these two interpretations are invalid for the reasons stated. I thought it was funny when the deluded IchiHime shippers (as in, not all of them) were desperately clinging to the "it's totally about Zangetsu!" argument, but that made way more sense than this one.
Romantic or not, the poem is about Rukia. Case closed.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #2: Kubo would never make Orihime love Ichigo just to get her heart broken!
The only thing I need to say to the people who assert this is: is Bleach the only thing you've ever read/watched? Because I've seen quite a few stories in which the unrequited love remains unrequited and the other person never reciprocates. I'm not even going to bother with examples because there are SO MANY. There are even some in the manga itself:
Hinamori --> Aizen
Rukia --> Kaien
Hitsugaya --> Hinamori
And I'm sure there are more that aren't coming to mind right now. None of these people end up together (although I suppose Hitsugaya still has a chance).
Seriously, you really think that this is a valid argument? I can think of two reasons for Orihime's feelings to exist that have nothing to do with Ichigo returning them:
1. Character development.
We've already seen this somewhat with her, with her overcoming some low self-esteem and learning that she needs to depend less on Ichigo. As her world still seems to revolve around him, there is still plenty of room for her to grow, especially if she moves on from her love for him and becomes even more independent. She might not even get her heart broken, but realize he's not the one for her and move on without it hurting her too much.
2. ICHIRUKI
I gotta say, when I was reading Ugly and Trifle, I was blown away by how unsubtle Kubo was being about IchiRuki. He was clearly using Orihime's jealousy to bring out the chaning relationship and evolving feelings between these two.
Anyway, more epic fail: what about Ishida? Ishida has feelings for Orihime. Using your own argument, Kubo would never make Ishida like Orihime only to have him get his heart broken!
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #3: The bond between Ichigo and Orihime is stronger than the one between Ichigo x Rukia because Ichigo spend a total of more hours around Orihime!
I just...what?
The entirety of the Bleach fandom, even nearly all IchiHime shippers, acknowledge that Ichigo and Rukia she a very beautiful, deep, strong bond that is integral to the story of Bleach. Even though not everyone believes they harbor romantic feelings for one another, they see how strong their bond is.
Orihime and Ichigo have no such bond.
They are nakama, yes. Orihime is important to Ichigo, yes. But their bond isn't any more special than the bond Ichigo has with Chad, Ishida, even Tatsuki. Orihime still doesn't know how to cheer Ichigo up when he's down like Rukia does. Rukia dried Ichigo's rain, she's his ray or light, the person who gave him the power to protect everyone. Orihime is a close friend, a nakama, but she is nowhere near as close to him as Rukia is, and their bond is incomparable to the bond between him and Rukia. Obviously.
Spending time together doesn't guarantee anything. It's about QUALITY, non quantity. If you don't have romantic feelings for someone, no amount of time spent with them is going to lead to you dating them. This argument only works under the condition that the two people don't really know each other at first, then as they spend more time together and get to know one another better, they begin to discover that they like one another. Too bad for IH shippers, this is clearly NOT the case for Ichigo x Orihime, as they've had plenty of time to get to know one another better (re: 17 months without Rukia or world-ending wars to get in the way), and they're still not together. What are you IH shippers waiting for, seriously? Ichigo has never shown any romantic interest in Orihime and he never will. Deal with it.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #4: Ichigo is secretly in love with Orihime!
There is exactly zero evidence of this. It's enough of a stretch to say that Ichigo might develop feelings for later, but to say he loves her already is just...well, crazy. I've talked in previous posts about how the argument "Ichigo treats Orihime nicer than he treats everyone else, so therefore he must love her" is invalid, so I won't elaborate on that again. Orihime is a nakama to him, and nothing more. She is not "more than a friend, less than a lover," like Rukia is. And there are no interactions between the two of them, no moments were Ichigo is thinking specifically of her (as in, not her lumped in with Chad and/or Ishida and the rest of his nakamas) that indicate he is harboring secret feelings for her.
While IchiRuki is not canon, there are plenty of moments that one can refer to that hint towards Ichigo and Rukia possibly developing feelings for one another already (see my previous post). The same is simply not true for Orihime and Ichigo. And if you are looking beyond the obvious (as in, a love confession like Orihime's FLOL speech), you've got to take into account of the the "IchiRuki" moments as well as the ones you are considering to be IchiHime. Of course, some IchiHime fans assert that there is nothing romantic about Ichigo and Rukia's bond, that they are simply family or friends, and to those people I say: read my previous post.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #5: IchiHime is most likely to happen because it would be the easiest route.
Sadly, I've seen IchiRuki fans agreeing with this as well.
First, what is meant by "easy"? I'm assuming it means Orihime loves Ichigo already and has admitted that much, so all that's left is Ichigo's feelings, therefore Kubo is already 50% done if he wants to pair Ichigo up with someone. I find this idea laughable because it makes Kubo sound like some lazy mangaka who doesn't want to put in the effort and just goes with whatever requires the least amount of effort. Kubo isn't going to do what's "easy," he's going to do what he intended when he thought up the story. I'm sure Kubo has a plan for how he is going to end the manga, whether it is with IchiRuki or no pairing at all. It's not like he's Stephenie Meyer a terrible writer who only realizes halfway through his work that he needs to add an important element in. If he intends a certain pairing, he is going to go with it because it's what he envisioned for the story, not because it'll take less time to do. It's not like he's doing this as a chore or for someone else...it's his own story!
Second, IchiHime would NOT be the "easy" route! It would actually be much more difficult than IchiRuki, because he's on the final arc, and he spent the last 10+ years building up the IchiRuki bond, throwing in hints that their relationship is steadily growing in the direction of becoming romantic, and has shown that for Ichigo, Orihime is forever friend-zoned. To make IchiHime happen, he would somehow need to have Ichigo develop feelings for Orihime (because see Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #4, Ichigo DOESN'T ALREADY HAVE FEELINGS FOR ORIHIME), while simultaneously downplaying the IchiRuki bond because how is Orihime (or any other woman, for that matter) going to compete with the woman who is Ichigo's ray of light, the one who dried the rain, and the one who always knows what to say to get him out of whatever funk he's in unless he makes her less important to him? No, it would be much easier to have Ichigo and Rukia simultaneous realize that they love one another and need to be with one another. It wouldn't take very much because they are already so important to one another that the shove into romance would not take much development. The same can simply not be said for IchiHime, because even if one side is at 100%, the other is at 0%. If we take "more than friends, less than lovers" literally, then Ichigo and Rukia are both at least at 50%, and since that interview is 5+ years old, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they're both at 75%.
Those number are obviously silly and just an estimation, but the fact remains that Kubo is not going to do IchiHime just because it's "easier," partly because it's actually not the one that's "easier."
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #6: Ichigo treats Orihime special and feels the need to protect her because of the tough life she has led!
You've been reading too much fanfiction. Ichigo doesn't feel that he "needs" to protect Orihime for any special reason, he just WANTS to protect her like he wants to protect all of his friends. The difference between her and the rest of his friends is that she is not a fighter, and while her heeling powers are amazing, she is the one that needs the most protecting because she is the least capable of fighting for herself. Ichigo promised to protect her and not Chad or Tatsuki because it was only Orihime who got hurt because he failed. Chad and Tatsuki went down before Ichigo even got there, it was only Orihime who got hurt because Ichigo freaked out over his inner hollow. Therefore she's the only one that he needs to apologize to (though I suppose he could apologize to Chad and Tatsuki for not getting there fast enough, but that's a completely different issue).
And where did this nonsense about "Ichigo is concerned over the tough life Orihime's had" come from? Her history is brought up in chapter 3-4 and never revisited ever again. No where does Ichigo comment on her past and say that it makes him want to watch out for her. Ichigo wants to protect Orihime because she is his friend, and the most vulnerable of his friends. It has absolutely nothing to do with her life story.
These kind of arguments (along with the misinterpretation of the Dome IchiHime Epic FAIL) irritate me the most because the shippers that make them don't even want to be reading Bleach. They are trying to make it into a knight-in-shining-armor-rescues-beautiful-sweet-princess story (which I am a big fan of), WHICH IT IS NOT. If that's what you want, go watch a Disney movie (again, huge fan), but please stop trying to turn Bleach into something that it clearly is not.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #7: Ichigo will choose Orihime because she has a better body than Rukia and would be more fun to have sex with!
I am downright offended by this "argument." Ichigo isn't a pervert or a manwhore; he would never "choose" a girl based on her physical attributes. The Ichigo from that manga that I'M reading isn't going to make a list of pros and cons for Orihime and Rukia and choose one based on the best result, he's going to choose the girl that he loves over the girl that he does not love, no matter how huge the unloved girl's boobs are. Anyone who spews this nonsense is being disrespectful to Ichigo, Orihime, Rukia, and most definitely Kubo.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #8: Ichigo will fall for Orihime because she looks and/or acts like Ichigo's mother!
Some IchiRuki fans say this is gross because it means Ichigo has a Oedipus complex, while the IchiHime fans are saying it is totally a hint for their pairing because studies have shown that women/men tend to look for sposes that have the traits of their father/mother if they had a good relationship with their parents.
Thing is, the IchiHime fans DO have a point about the science, it's true, and it's not necessarily gross.
However, their argument that this bodes well for their pairing holds no water. What do they expect to happen? For Ichigo to one day wake up and realize that Orihime is just like his mom and therefore he must love her? IF Ichigo didn't know her very well I would say that it's a possibility that he develop feelings for her once he gets to know her better, but he is already close enough to her to have started seeing the similarities between her and his mom IF they had any bearing on his romantic decisions. Not only that, but if Masaki and Orihime having looks and personality in common were important or something Kubo really wanted to emphasize (like, say, Ichigo and Rukia's thoughts about one another during the SS arc), he would have characters pointing it out. But he hasn't.
As for the science argument, this isn't real life, it's fiction. Just because sometimes in real life men fall for women who are similar to their mothers does NOT mean that there is any chance that will happen in Bleach. Kubo doesn't have to follow this trend if he doesn't want to. And as there are no hints for this anywhere in the manga, it's safe to say that it's never going to be brought up.
Ridiculous IchiHime Argument #9: Karin ships Ichigo with Orihime!
Sigh. Let me direction you here, since you clearly don't understand this concept.
Everyone, including Ichigo, knows that Orihime is beautiful, smart, and has lots of fanboys. Karin didn't say, "I won't be impressed until Ichigo brings Orihime home," she said "I won't be impressed until Ichigo brings A GIRL LIKE Orihime home." As in, a girl who is as popular as Orihime, and, in Karin's eyes, as beautiful in that way. Does Karin think that Orihime is more beautiful that Rukia? Seems so. Does that have any impact on whom Ichigo perceives as more beautiful? Absolutely not. Karin doesn't want Orihime in particular for Ichigo, just a girl who is as popular and beautiful as her. Considering this is never brought up again, it was obviously only used in a comical context, so using it as a "proof" for IchiHime is incredibly stupid.
That's all for now. I will probably add in more as I see them.