Dreams and Political Will

[wyld_dandelyon]

Once upon a time, there was a little girl who read the Sunday comics, and laughed at Dick Tracy's two-way video communicator watch. Heck, he got better reception than the TV, and never needed to whack the thing to clear up the picture. It was quite obviously fantasy

Comments

[catsittingstill]

I think we are making progress

[wyld_dandelyon]

Women made a lot of progress before gays even got started. I wonder if it's hard to change society on more than one front at once. I also wonder if it's not just that "gay" is short that led to the word for male homosexuals being used as the umbrella term by most people not part of the QUILTBAG community.

I wonder how much, to change society, you need to catch the attention of lots of young people. How many YA authors are reimagining society?

[catsittingstill]

Yes, we did. For that matter the argument can be made that we started from a better place; we might have been seen as hysterical and incompetent, but at least we weren't seen as unnatural (mostly).

But still I see so much change in attitudes on that front (with, obviously, far to go yet) and without wanting to detract from any other struggle for fairness, I wonder, why not us too? It reminds me somewhat of the campaigns to get people of color and women the vote--eventually women's voting rights got set aside and men of color got (if in some places only nominally) the vote fifty years or more before women did, which lead to some understandable bitterness.

No, I don't think it's just the relative shortness of "gay" that is why it's used as a shorthand for both genders either.

YA fiction... interesting. Maybe I should check out some more of that. I know there's some good stuff out there but I hadn't thought of it in terms of re-imagining a fairer society.

[wyld_dandelyon]

I do see a lot of changes from when I was a kid to now, but many of those (like the advances for queerfolk) weren't even on my radar at the time, while women's equality was actively advancing at the time, and then stalled.

I am personally vested in both fights for equality, of course. I don't want to see one advance at the expense of the other!

This topic connects in so many obvious and not-obvious ways to many things I care about!

[lb_lee]

It reminds me somewhat of the campaigns to get people of color and women the vote--eventually women's voting rights got set aside and men of color got (if in some places only nominally) the vote fifty years or more before women did, which lead to some understandable bitterness.

I know! And think of the women of color who had to fight with the first-wave feminists trying to exile them from the vote!

Also, keep in mind the gay rights movement was spurred damn hard by the AIDS crisis in the 80s. When you've got an illness known as "the gay cancer" people unifying to fight is pretty much a given.

--Rogan

[catsittingstill]

Huh? If there was any "white women only" campaign for women's suffrage after black men got the vote, I am unaware of it.

I thought I had researched this era reasonably well. But I am willing to learn.

[lb_lee]

It wasn't a "white women only," but racism had some pretty nasty splashover during the women's suffrage movement. Ida B. Wells, for instance, took Frances E. Willard on due to such sentiments as, "It is not fair that a plantation Negro who can neither read or write should be entrusted with the ballot."

Elizabeth Cady Stanton also used racist rhetoric in her discussion of the women's vote.

And then you've got this. It seems there was quite a bit of rage that black men got the vote before white women.

...it's actually kinda interesting, seeing the same sort of schisms and tension between queer and trans activists today.

Note that I am NOT that well-read about this era, so feel free to correct me on this.

--Rogan

[catsittingstill]

Yes, that is the understandable bitterness I was talking about.

Many of the leaders of the suffragist movement had been faithful supporters of abolition for many years. They thought (quite reasonably in my opinion) that abolitionists should similarly support them, and that blacks and women should obtain the right to vote at the same time.

When bills were drafted to give blacks the right to vote, however, women were excluded. Abolitionists made no moves to support women's suffrage in any other way either (that I know of.) As a direct result, black men got the right to vote fifty years before women did. Most of the women who were betrayed grew old and died without ever seeing women get the vote.

This led to predictable bad feeling. The racism in question is deplorable, and has since been laid aside, but nobody is at her most reasonable when she has been so decidedly stabbed in the back with such devastating results.

There was, however, no push I am aware of to gain only white women the vote.

[lb_lee]

There was, however, no push I am aware of to gain only white women the vote.

Oh no, that I agree with. The thing is, BLACK WOMEN were stabbed in the back too. That white women, while fighting for the right to vote, splashed it on black women who were probably equally stricken is completely deplorable to me. The black women had to deal with the racism in their own groups, while at the same time fighting for the right to vote. That's what I meant to say, not that the racism manifested in ways that only white women should get the vote.

--Rogan

[catsittingstill]

Indeed they were; stabbed in the back twice over. By their fellow women's racist statements, and by their fellow blacks' refusal to work with them to obtain their right to vote.

That sucks big time, I absolutely agree.

[wyld_dandelyon]

Fifty years is a very long time!

[catsittingstill]

It wasn't until I sat down and subtracted the years of the beginning of the movement(s) and the respective amendments from each other that I realized that women fought for generations to get the right to vote, and many of the ones who began the fight must have grown old and died without seeing the end of it. It made me want to weep.

And to damn well vote if I have to drag myself to the polls on my hands and knees.

[wyld_dandelyon]

I knew many of them died before the right to vote was achieved.

I agree that the best way to honor them is to vote!