Ji of the Huojin
Discussion under cut because it has spoilers for some beta characters and storylines.
So I got into beta last week and have been enjoying myself thoroughly. However, when it came time to roll a pandaren lady, I noticed something really suspicious about the beginning quests you get from Ji Firepaw, who eventually is revealed as the Horde Pandaren leader. When you first meet him, he has some dialogue with you as part of questing, especially if you are a woman.
I made a beta forums thread about it, which has reached 11 pages, making it the longest thread (almost) about beta and this has some people mad apparently because I am giving feedback about something stupid!
I copied the OP text here in case people can't get to the forums as part of their work.
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I've been enjoying the beta greatly, but one thing has stood out to me so far, while testing new Pandaren monks.
Early on in the leveling experience, you meet Ji of the Huojin. He's the pandaren questgiver that's in the first village you come to after helping Aysa Cloudsinger meditate on where the fire spirit is. As a fem Pandaren I ran up to him to turn in my quest, only to be greeted by slightly creepy conversation text.
I went back and did the quest as a male just to see how it changed. It was similar text in that it was constructed similarly, but it did not have nearly the level of inappropriateness.
See for yourself:
What he says to women:
Hello, friend!
You're some kind of gorgeous, aren't you? I bet you can't keep the men off of you!
Join me! You and I are going to be good friends!
What he says to men:
Hello, friend!
You've got a strong look to you! I bet you're all the rage with the ladies!
Join me! You and I are going to be good friends!
It's a subtle difference but it pulled me out of playing for a moment. I am aware that Ji is written to perhaps be slightly too friendly. I know you all have a friend like that. However, how it reads to a woman, especially as a woman in real life - it came off as creepy. The focus is on how beautiful she is, rather than strong. Given how Pandaren society seems to value strength and poise as gender-neutral traits, why make this guy espouse an exception? Add to the fact that this is stuff I hear from weird random dudes I know all the time, with the added "You and I are going to be good friends"...
well it comes off as weird. Is it possible we could tone down or neutralize this dude's text? I know that people are going to jump on me over quibbling over nothing, but I think it represents a break in Blizzard's ability to make me feel as valued as a female character as much as a male character is. If I was actually my lady Pandaren, I would have given him a Jab right to the stomach.
tl;dr: Recognition of gender is important, but not in a way that marginalizes.
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Apparently I've managed to piss off everyone, but some people have made some really good suggestions about how to tweak the dialogue and retain his impulsive, action-oriented nature but bring the dialogue closer in line with men in terms of tone and form.
There's going to be a WoW Insider article at some point about this too.
I just don't get why this isn't a crucial thing to give feedback about. He's the Horde racial leader. He pulled me out of my playing experience by saying this stuff. It's an easy fix for what seems like lazy writing from a lazy nerd dude at Blizzard who thinks that that's a friendly way to write someone (No, Ji, I don't want to give you a goddamned hug.)
but not in a way that marginalizes.
Anyone else in beta notice this? Anyone else bothered by this?
Edit: Wow Insider's editorial piece mentions my forum thread! :3
So I got into beta last week and have been enjoying myself thoroughly. However, when it came time to roll a pandaren lady, I noticed something really suspicious about the beginning quests you get from Ji Firepaw, who eventually is revealed as the Horde Pandaren leader. When you first meet him, he has some dialogue with you as part of questing, especially if you are a woman.
I made a beta forums thread about it, which has reached 11 pages, making it the longest thread (almost) about beta and this has some people mad apparently because I am giving feedback about something stupid!
I copied the OP text here in case people can't get to the forums as part of their work.
--------
I've been enjoying the beta greatly, but one thing has stood out to me so far, while testing new Pandaren monks.
Early on in the leveling experience, you meet Ji of the Huojin. He's the pandaren questgiver that's in the first village you come to after helping Aysa Cloudsinger meditate on where the fire spirit is. As a fem Pandaren I ran up to him to turn in my quest, only to be greeted by slightly creepy conversation text.
I went back and did the quest as a male just to see how it changed. It was similar text in that it was constructed similarly, but it did not have nearly the level of inappropriateness.
See for yourself:
What he says to women:
Hello, friend!
You're some kind of gorgeous, aren't you? I bet you can't keep the men off of you!
Join me! You and I are going to be good friends!
What he says to men:
Hello, friend!
You've got a strong look to you! I bet you're all the rage with the ladies!
Join me! You and I are going to be good friends!
It's a subtle difference but it pulled me out of playing for a moment. I am aware that Ji is written to perhaps be slightly too friendly. I know you all have a friend like that. However, how it reads to a woman, especially as a woman in real life - it came off as creepy. The focus is on how beautiful she is, rather than strong. Given how Pandaren society seems to value strength and poise as gender-neutral traits, why make this guy espouse an exception? Add to the fact that this is stuff I hear from weird random dudes I know all the time, with the added "You and I are going to be good friends"...
well it comes off as weird. Is it possible we could tone down or neutralize this dude's text? I know that people are going to jump on me over quibbling over nothing, but I think it represents a break in Blizzard's ability to make me feel as valued as a female character as much as a male character is. If I was actually my lady Pandaren, I would have given him a Jab right to the stomach.
tl;dr: Recognition of gender is important, but not in a way that marginalizes.
-----------
Apparently I've managed to piss off everyone, but some people have made some really good suggestions about how to tweak the dialogue and retain his impulsive, action-oriented nature but bring the dialogue closer in line with men in terms of tone and form.
There's going to be a WoW Insider article at some point about this too.
I just don't get why this isn't a crucial thing to give feedback about. He's the Horde racial leader. He pulled me out of my playing experience by saying this stuff. It's an easy fix for what seems like lazy writing from a lazy nerd dude at Blizzard who thinks that that's a friendly way to write someone (No, Ji, I don't want to give you a goddamned hug.)
but not in a way that marginalizes.
Anyone else in beta notice this? Anyone else bothered by this?
Edit: Wow Insider's editorial piece mentions my forum thread! :3