Faction Politics

[redikolous]

I'm writing a fanfic, and I want to know some details on faction politics and relations? Like little particulars. I get the intra-faction prejudice, somewhat (mostly the blatant belf-undead versus tauren-orc etc), but I would like stuff on how racial leaders feel towards racial leaders. Besides Thrall/Jaina, since I'm looking for intra lol. Are

Comments

[sodzilla]

That the night elves in game have changed shows that the game designers have fucked up, not that the night elves should now be treated as crybabies. And I'd be very careful about judging someone by the insults their enemies fling at them.

I have read The Shattering and I don't remember the other dwarves lining the streets and cheering. Hating Faction X doesn't mean you're fine with Faction Y violating your territory and national sovereignty instead, just because Y are fighting X.

Genn Greymane is not an "old friend" of Varian's. The Alliance was originally formed to stop the Horde and save Stormwind; Genn thought this was a bad idea and wanted to leave Varian's people to their fate, and was only persuaded to join the Alliance by rather heavy-handed tactics from Terenas Menethil. That's as much as we know of their earlier interactions, unless you're privy to some secret lore source.

And I'd also like to know who appointed Varian "face of the Alliance", "leader of the Alliance" or "Military Supreme Commander of the Alliance". Yeah yeah, I know Blizzard says he is, but what made the other Alliance rulers think it was a good idea to sign away their sovereignty to him?

[klrmnky]

Okay. Keep in mind what Moira did. Moira locked down Ironforge, kidnapped the son of a leader of the Alliance and the dwarves weren't happy with her heavy handed tactics. When Varian came and restored order the other dwarven clans were relieved by his actions, although Anduin was the real hero by stopping his daddy from doing something really stupid. I never said that they were lining the streets cheering him.

Go read "Tides of Darkness" and "Beyond the Dark Portal". Both show that Greymane and Varian had a good relationship, despite Graymane grumbling all of the time. Greymane's big problems was money. He didn't like the idea of spending cash on Nethrgarde Keep and he wasn't too keen on his taxes paying to keep the orcs in interment camps. Varian even gave Greymane a tour of the rebuilt Stormwind City and made light heartred jabs about Greymane's complaining. They knew each other personally since at least the Second War.

As for who appointed Varian. The way that the Alliance works, is that they probably took a vote on it. The human faction is the biggest faction of the Alliance and thus more able to support the Alliance from a military perspective. The Alliance isn't the Horde. They probably voted on it, but no, it is never stated explicitly in lore how or when he was voted Supreme Military Commander. But he doesn't lead the Alliance as a whole. It's not the Horde where all power flows to and from the Warchief. It probably happened after he killed Onyxia and then met the rest of the leaders. Keep in mind, he is only in charge of the military units that the rest of the Alliance put under his command. He has no say over such units as the Sentinels. His overall command stops at the troops given to him by the other leaders. He isn't the dictator of the Alliance, like the Warchief is the dictator of the Horde.

[sodzilla]

"Probably, probably". Sorry, but since they haven't even to the best of my knowledge said he IS in charge of the Alliance, just that he acts like it, "probably" isn't going to cut much ice against the fact the other leaders would be rampantly STUPID to give up their sovereignty. (Also, how is it that in the absence of certain knowledge Varian was probably democratically elected, but in the absence of certain knowledge the Warchief is probably a dictator?)

And how is he the supreme military commander if he doesn't actually command except when the others let him?

[klrmnky]

okay, real world-

WW2- Allies versus Axis. The Allies placed portions of their military under the command of General Eisenhower, who was the Supreme Military Commander of the Allies. Eisenhower was in charge of those units. He couldn't command units that weren't put under his control. He couldn't tell the British Home Guard what to do since they reported to the British military, not to him. He couldn't command the units in Asia, unless they were US forces, because the Allies hadn't placed those units under his control.

Each member of the Alliance gave armies or portions of it's military to serve in the Alliance as a whole, hence units like the 7th Legion, which has members from all of the Alliance. But they still have their own armies, such as the nigh elf Sentinels that report to Tyrande and Tyrande only. Varian can't walk over to Feralas and start commanding the Sentinels as his own. They aren't under his command.

The rest of the Alliance didn't hand over their sovereignty to him. He can't make pacts with the Horde in their name. Like he can't make a seperate peace with the Forsaken or the Horde. They just submitted portions of their military to work in the Alliance, just as the US can hand troops over to NATO to work NATO missions such as Libya, and Bosnia. They still control their own affairs, if they want to leave the Alliance, they can, unlike the Horde.

I think that you are getting gameplay and story mixed up. Before Varian, the Alliance didn't have any figureheads or someone that the players could rally around as a story. Blizz realized that the Horde had Thrall which players could rally around and was an important part of the story. There was nobody that represented the Alliance's viewpoint in the story that they were crafting. So Varian was made bigger than life, reintroduced back to WoW in a big way- comics, questlines and such, so the Alliance would have their anti-Thrall, as called by Blizz. Now the players would have someone representing the Alliance, even though, he didn't. The Alliance is a group of soveriegn states that joined forces. Their is no overall leader of the Alliance. But since it would be confusing to have events such as WotLK and have all five members of the Alliance leadership talking through everything, Varian got center stage. With the Horde, it's much simplier. Thrall was the warchief. The warchief speaks for the Horde, he is the horde. His word is law. Varian's word isn't law in the Alliance. He got the dwarves to create a council, with their approval, to avoid a dwarven civil war, where all three faction's opinions would be taken accounted for, instead of just saying that Muradin is King, deal with it, because I'm Varian and my word is law.

[sodzilla]

No, he just held a sword to their current leader's throat and said, you better share your power little girl, because I'm Varian and my word is law...

You can say all you like about how Moira was misbehaving and I'll agree with you, but stop trying to claim that on the ONE hand he can enforce something like that, but on the OTHER hand he isn't a dictator, isn't the sovereign of the Alliance, isn't intruding on the territory and rights of the dwarves.

[siadea]

I think that if it weren't for one thing and one thing alone, Moira/the dwarves would have been well within their lawful rights to toss his beardless human ass out into the snow.

Unfortunately, there is the not-so-tiny matter of a kidnapped heir to the throne. I'm pretty sure war has been declared for less.

[sodzilla]

Yes, and if Varian had declared war on the dwarves I wouldn't have this problem, because then he'd be treating the dwarves as a sovereign people instead of as subjects whose government he can freely interfere in.

[siadea]

This is not the first time that someone has treated another sovereign people as their own subjects, either fictionally or in real life, and I imagine it won't be the last.

(Which isn't to say I'm much of a Varian fan, or that he did the 'right thing.' I really want to love Moira, much as I want to love Magatha, but the damn writers won't let me.)

[klrmnky]

Warchief is a dictator position. This is the Blood Oath of the Horde that every single member of the Horde says in order to join the Horde:

"Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.
I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
From this moment until the end of days I live and die - For the Horde!"

When you sign up for the Horde, you hand your sovereignty over to the Warchief. If the Warchief says "jump", you ask "how high". Hence why Garrosh can order Sylvanas to invade Gilneas and she does it. Thrall was a benign dictator, but a dictator none the less. All power in Horde flows to and from the Warchief. His word is law. Thrall placed orc guards in UC to keep an eye on Sylvanas.

What else would you call their style of government?