I pvp'd a lot on Healah as she was leveling. I spent a lot of time in the 51-60 AV, and we won a fair amount. Lost a fair share too. I got a significant portion the marks I needed for my Black War Kodo in one day of AV - a Thursday when I stayed home from work. It was queuing us so quickly that I barely had time to get out of the war room to buy some pots before the queue would pop!
I've gone into AV a few times at 61, but we've done very poorly. The one game we won was where I came in after it had started and there was a group playing D at Iceblood. When we play D there, we win. Otherwise, we lose, a lot.
I've not played AV on Llane in years, but my guildies tell me that horde loses in the 61-70 bracket a lot there too.
The map is terribly unfair, and yes, I'm going to say it's biased toward Alliance. That bridge is a killer defense, and having to kill all the bowmen in your base to cap towers is blatantly unfair, when Alliance can easily ignore the bowmen entirely. Plus, there's FW graveyard, defending on a open plain is just dumb. I realize our starting cave is a LOT higher and lets us hit SH a lot quicker than you can hit IB, but Bal has more HPs than Galv (even if she doesn't take much to kill, she takes a LONG time to kill), so while we're there trying to cap towers and kill ALL the bowmen before doing so, you guys can zoom on past, cap SF, then if there's no D at IB, it's a cakewalk.
I've seen what may be a map of the new cave placement over on the PTR. It will make things a lot easier for the Alliance, I think.
I acknowledge that the bridge is a choke point for Horde, but I'm not sure, otherwise, that the terrain differences are that huge, as far as defending goes.
Take SPGY. You can attack from three directions, readily, as well as having good avenues for high ground from which to attack that Alliance can't take advantage of nearly as well. (You can go up the high road, come around the back, or take the direct path.) This isn't that different, functionally, from the open plain, which is defensible, and we have a narrower approach path to RH, where the Aid Station is fairly open.
Then you have the matter of choke points. The path from the Frostwolf village area that winds through that building to come out between the towers? Seriously nasty choke point for Alliance IF Horde defend there, which they very rarely do. When they do, I've seen Alliance get nuked nastily there.
I think the difference is more attitude - Horde don't really realise the defensive positions they could take, and don't (that choke at FW, IBGY, and such) and have a fairly losing mindset for AV. In the new AV the setup actually should favour Horde a bit imo - after the changes came through Alliance were losing hard *most of the time* until we adapted to the changes, and Horde *haven't* changed their playstyle much, as far as I can see.
In much the same way, Alliance tend to go into the other BGs expecting to lose, and we usually do, where Horde expect to win, and do.
Ah, but see, you can waltz right into our base. Even going through the front gate, you meet absolutely no resistance, except the occasional bowman. And if the front gate is defended, there's a nice wall you can hop over. You have a bridge that is a cockblock, because we can't get past it, especially with the bowmen hitting everyone on the bridge if they can make it halfway.
The road to SP is a chokepoint for you - I can't tell you how many times I've yelled at people and and see people in /bg yell at people to take the damned highroad, and yet, they stick to the road, and get slaughtered by Alliance who DO take the highroad to snipe from above.
This is the thread with a possible new map for AV (AFAIK, it's still not implemented on the PTR).
And I think we're going to have to agree to disagree if you really think that SPGY compares to FWGY. :)
Yeah, it's kind of my point that the Horde can win handily if they DO use the terrain properly. They just don't often. The fact that the road is a chokepoint because Horde don't use the terrain - you CAN take the high road, or go under the bridge and hit SPGY from behind, and it's not exactly the map's fault if you don't - isn't really our fault or Blizzard's.
As far as the bridge goes - yeah, the bridge is a cockblock, but, if used right, the path up to RH is too. There's the little path, it goes through the flagless tower, then has a path up where we're getting shot at from both Frostwolf towers and the Horde can gank the hell out of us IF they're defending there. I've been in games where the Alliance got hung up at that point for ten minutes and more.
As for the bridge - ride across the damn thing without stopping, in a group, and we're in trouble, because once you scatter around Dun Baldar and get a group in each bunker we struggle.
The Alliance side of the map has its benefits, but Horde could win if they outplayed us. They just don't, in exactly the same way that Alliance could win the other three battlegrounds if we outplayed the Horde, and we don't, so we lose. A lot.
I've gone into AV a few times at 61, but we've done very poorly. The one game we won was where I came in after it had started and there was a group playing D at Iceblood. When we play D there, we win. Otherwise, we lose, a lot.
I've not played AV on Llane in years, but my guildies tell me that horde loses in the 61-70 bracket a lot there too.
The map is terribly unfair, and yes, I'm going to say it's biased toward Alliance. That bridge is a killer defense, and having to kill all the bowmen in your base to cap towers is blatantly unfair, when Alliance can easily ignore the bowmen entirely. Plus, there's FW graveyard, defending on a open plain is just dumb. I realize our starting cave is a LOT higher and lets us hit SH a lot quicker than you can hit IB, but Bal has more HPs than Galv (even if she doesn't take much to kill, she takes a LONG time to kill), so while we're there trying to cap towers and kill ALL the bowmen before doing so, you guys can zoom on past, cap SF, then if there's no D at IB, it's a cakewalk.
I've seen what may be a map of the new cave placement over on the PTR. It will make things a lot easier for the Alliance, I think.
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I acknowledge that the bridge is a choke point for Horde, but I'm not sure, otherwise, that the terrain differences are that huge, as far as defending goes.
Take SPGY. You can attack from three directions, readily, as well as having good avenues for high ground from which to attack that Alliance can't take advantage of nearly as well. (You can go up the high road, come around the back, or take the direct path.) This isn't that different, functionally, from the open plain, which is defensible, and we have a narrower approach path to RH, where the Aid Station is fairly open.
Then you have the matter of choke points. The path from the Frostwolf village area that winds through that building to come out between the towers? Seriously nasty choke point for Alliance IF Horde defend there, which they very rarely do. When they do, I've seen Alliance get nuked nastily there.
I think the difference is more attitude - Horde don't really realise the defensive positions they could take, and don't (that choke at FW, IBGY, and such) and have a fairly losing mindset for AV. In the new AV the setup actually should favour Horde a bit imo - after the changes came through Alliance were losing hard *most of the time* until we adapted to the changes, and Horde *haven't* changed their playstyle much, as far as I can see.
In much the same way, Alliance tend to go into the other BGs expecting to lose, and we usually do, where Horde expect to win, and do.
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The road to SP is a chokepoint for you - I can't tell you how many times I've yelled at people and and see people in /bg yell at people to take the damned highroad, and yet, they stick to the road, and get slaughtered by Alliance who DO take the highroad to snipe from above.
This is the thread with a possible new map for AV (AFAIK, it's still not implemented on the PTR).
And I think we're going to have to agree to disagree if you really think that SPGY compares to FWGY. :)
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As far as the bridge goes - yeah, the bridge is a cockblock, but, if used right, the path up to RH is too. There's the little path, it goes through the flagless tower, then has a path up where we're getting shot at from both Frostwolf towers and the Horde can gank the hell out of us IF they're defending there. I've been in games where the Alliance got hung up at that point for ten minutes and more.
As for the bridge - ride across the damn thing without stopping, in a group, and we're in trouble, because once you scatter around Dun Baldar and get a group in each bunker we struggle.
The Alliance side of the map has its benefits, but Horde could win if they outplayed us. They just don't, in exactly the same way that Alliance could win the other three battlegrounds if we outplayed the Horde, and we don't, so we lose. A lot.
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