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AIM Chat with Raejin99.
8:12 PM
Raejin99: Join me in this buddy chat!
ColTheAwesome has joined this chat.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: what's this? I can't see a name
Raejin99: This is a mod chat so we can talk to you
fagballs mcgillicuddy: what's up?
hawkyelf has joined this chat.
8:15 PM
Raejin99: We appreciate you putting up the first discussion post. However, we would appreciate it if you would stop. You are not a mod helper. If you want posts like these put up, ask a mod or mod helper to do so.
Raejin99: You did not ask us
fagballs mcgillicuddy: because of my poll?
ColTheAwesome: Not just the poll, the discussion post, too.
Raejin99: Just in general. We know what you were trying to do with the first, but you still should have asked us.
Raejin99: Also, we have been getting complaints about your combativeness in the discussion post.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: alright. i'll do that next time.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: i'm being pretty cool headed
ColTheAwesome: It's still making people uncomfortable.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: what specifically?
Raejin99: They've only mentioned in general.
ColTheAwesome: Okay, you're taking the stance that if someone doesn't like it, they can ignore it, correct?
8:20 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: yes. is that what's being complained about?
Raejin99: The basic fact is that so far is that people have noted that all the arguments going around in the discussion posts are simply going around in circles like they were in chat, and have accompished little other than continue to exacerbate the issues.
ColTheAwesome: The general feeling other people are getting from you is that it's just your way or no way. That's not really what should happen.
Raejin99: There is also the fact that people have complained about how, during the in-chat discussions, you continued to persist even though a mod order to stop had been given.
8:25 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: that's funny. that's the same feeling I get from people who say "this is a game about punching aliens in the face". I feel i'm being told my opinion is invalid
Raejin99: There ARE going to be diplomatic missions. But if we didn't have all this drama, we'd be able to actually get to it.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: that's great. it's not really relevant to the complaints about me though
ColTheAwesome: And to be honest, Hedge, the main focus of the game is to fight an intergalactic war. There is room for politics on the missions.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: 1: When I apped, that hadn't been revealed.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: 2: There hasn't been any so far. The last two missions plus the NK had no diplomatic component
hawkyelf: The war itself hadn't been revealed yet, but this has always been stressed as a high-fight, low-diplomacy game.
Raejin99: The second one is because until recently, we haven't had a concrete timeline for plots. We do now.
hawkyelf: And I say that as a person who is down to one character, whose strength IS talking.
Raejin99: But back to the topic on hand. The general feeling is that you are only exacerbating the issue, and you are making other players uncomfortable.
8:30 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: if noone cites anything specific I don't know what to change
Raejin99: 1) The general feeling the other players are getting from you is "my way or the highway". 2) Continuing to put up posts about the issue without conferring with the mods. 3) Continuing discussions even though the mod order to stop has been given.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: 1: I'm perfectly willing to compromise with others. I'm not forcing anyone to be a part of my plots. 2: Discussed that, won't do it again 3: Ditto
8:35 PM
Raejin99: Plots, sure. But the stuff on the general IC conflict? I've read your replies, and it seems that you don't want to concede to the fact that your opinion that "people who don't want to participate it can ignore it" isn't popular among a good number of other players.
ColTheAwesome: Re 1: and then when it was brought up in chat, you kind of went "well this is you roleplay" and kind of ignored the fact that other people do in fact use handwaving as a viable part of their playing.
8:40 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: it's not handwaving I find illogical. it's handwaving that isn't noted anywhere in the comms
8:45 PM
Raejin99: Players are allowed to play however they wish. The fact is that their handwaving did not inconvenience YOU in anyway, but you assuming what their characters did could pretty much count as godmodding.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: look, i've played in a number of big multifandoms. that's how things are done in all of them. I had no idea the kind of thing you're reffering to even existed when I posted
Raejin99: Well now you know. It is how most of our players are comfortable playing, and it's not likely to change anytime soon.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: it may not be right for trans (or it might be, the mods will have to issue a ruling) but you can't fault me for assuming that trans works like pretty much every other big multifandom game out there
Raejin99: But in your posts it seems that you don't want to drop the fact that people should do things the way YOU are used to, even though most people don't actually want to.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: most people? how do you know that?
fagballs mcgillicuddy: if that's how the game is officially run, i'll accept that, even though I don't agree with it
fagballs mcgillicuddy: but i'm not going to retract my opinion that it's a bad idea
8:50 PM
Raejin99: *sigh* Look. You're entitled to your opinions. But the people who complained to us feel that you are just shoving your opinions down their throats without taking theirs into account.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: same way I feel. i'll agree to disagree with them. but it'd be nice to have some kind of way of knowing who actually wants what kind of handwaving
hawkyelf: We understand that that's your opinion.
8:55 PM
hawkyelf: Not everyone agrees with you, and it's a little disrespectful to repeat it over and over. It manages to imply, we assume completely unintentionally, that you are the only one with the right answer.
hawkyelf: And that's where the problem is.
Raejin99: The point of these arguments is to make progress. If there is none, there's no point.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: it's disrespectful to repeat yourself? I can see 'annoying' but disrespectful?
ColTheAwesome: It is rude to constantly have someone go "No this way is my way" at you.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: again, specific examples?
9:05 PM
ColTheAwesome: Alright, your own discussion post for example. You have made yourself perfectly vocal that you prefer politics to action. You do not need to respond to every single post saying "I like action" with "Well I like politics. Here are reasons x, y, and z I like politics in my roleplay"
fagballs mcgillicuddy: I didn't say I prefer politics to action. I said I prefer a mix and we don't have that
fagballs mcgillicuddy: or rather we don't in the official plots
hawkyelf: We will.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: I didn't know that at the time
Raejin99: Also, an example: http://community.livejournal.com/trans_pilgrims/253383.html?thread=2420935#t2420935
ColTheAwesome: It was always the plan, Hedge.
ColTheAwesome: I recall knowing this before I was a mod or a mod helper
ColTheAwesome: that there would be more diplomatic missions.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: I was never told, though people threw up ideas for them and we all agreed they were awesome
fagballs mcgillicuddy: and in that thread I restate my opinion...once.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: notice I didn't post anymore after that?
Raejin99: It is the general tone of your argument
9:10 PM
Raejin99: That first response comes off as combative.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: it's how most RPs work. if people don't want to use that system, fine. but it's not combative for me to say that's my preffered system
fagballs mcgillicuddy: next time i'll insert "I believe" before every post
fagballs mcgillicuddy: how about this as an alternative response: "I believe that it would be best for the game to adopt an official policy that if you haven't made any note of it, your character hasn't done it. I think that if you can't note what your character's doing, which takes two minutes, you should reevaluate wether you have time to play that character."
hawkyelf: The last sentence is what's combative.
ColTheAwesome: See, you could just leave off the whole second sentence about not being-
9:15 PM
ColTheAwesome: yeah Hawky beat me to it
fagballs mcgillicuddy: so I can't make any statement at all about activity requirements? If I say "I think we should have stricter activity checks." It's saying the same thing. that's the point of them.
hawkyelf: No, it's not saying the same thing.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: the point of an activity check is "If you can't do anything with your character because you're too busy, you don't have time to play them"
ColTheAwesome: yeah but being swamped for a couple days and forgetting to handwave something is not the same as having no time at all
fagballs mcgillicuddy: it was a month
Raejin99: Not before the actual meat of the plot started. It was only what, a week or so before the main part of the plot started that the characters really pushed the training? If people were swamped during that time, you can't really assume anything about their characters.
9:20 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: alright you know what? we're going in circles here. how about I not comment to the OOC discussion at all?
Raejin99: Fine.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: and in the future maybe you could ask people to bring concerns with me...to me? I thought that was our policy
Raejin99: If they are uncomfortable, they are allowed to go straight to the mods.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: i've been pretty cool headed in this whole thing. I haven't snapped at or insulted anyone.
Raejin99: The fact remains that they felt uncomfortable. That is enough for us.
9:25 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: so much for the free discussion of ideas. can I go now?
Raejin99: yes
8:12 PM
Raejin99: Join me in this buddy chat!
ColTheAwesome has joined this chat.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: what's this? I can't see a name
Raejin99: This is a mod chat so we can talk to you
fagballs mcgillicuddy: what's up?
hawkyelf has joined this chat.
8:15 PM
Raejin99: We appreciate you putting up the first discussion post. However, we would appreciate it if you would stop. You are not a mod helper. If you want posts like these put up, ask a mod or mod helper to do so.
Raejin99: You did not ask us
fagballs mcgillicuddy: because of my poll?
ColTheAwesome: Not just the poll, the discussion post, too.
Raejin99: Just in general. We know what you were trying to do with the first, but you still should have asked us.
Raejin99: Also, we have been getting complaints about your combativeness in the discussion post.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: alright. i'll do that next time.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: i'm being pretty cool headed
ColTheAwesome: It's still making people uncomfortable.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: what specifically?
Raejin99: They've only mentioned in general.
ColTheAwesome: Okay, you're taking the stance that if someone doesn't like it, they can ignore it, correct?
8:20 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: yes. is that what's being complained about?
Raejin99: The basic fact is that so far is that people have noted that all the arguments going around in the discussion posts are simply going around in circles like they were in chat, and have accompished little other than continue to exacerbate the issues.
ColTheAwesome: The general feeling other people are getting from you is that it's just your way or no way. That's not really what should happen.
Raejin99: There is also the fact that people have complained about how, during the in-chat discussions, you continued to persist even though a mod order to stop had been given.
8:25 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: that's funny. that's the same feeling I get from people who say "this is a game about punching aliens in the face". I feel i'm being told my opinion is invalid
Raejin99: There ARE going to be diplomatic missions. But if we didn't have all this drama, we'd be able to actually get to it.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: that's great. it's not really relevant to the complaints about me though
ColTheAwesome: And to be honest, Hedge, the main focus of the game is to fight an intergalactic war. There is room for politics on the missions.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: 1: When I apped, that hadn't been revealed.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: 2: There hasn't been any so far. The last two missions plus the NK had no diplomatic component
hawkyelf: The war itself hadn't been revealed yet, but this has always been stressed as a high-fight, low-diplomacy game.
Raejin99: The second one is because until recently, we haven't had a concrete timeline for plots. We do now.
hawkyelf: And I say that as a person who is down to one character, whose strength IS talking.
Raejin99: But back to the topic on hand. The general feeling is that you are only exacerbating the issue, and you are making other players uncomfortable.
8:30 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: if noone cites anything specific I don't know what to change
Raejin99: 1) The general feeling the other players are getting from you is "my way or the highway". 2) Continuing to put up posts about the issue without conferring with the mods. 3) Continuing discussions even though the mod order to stop has been given.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: 1: I'm perfectly willing to compromise with others. I'm not forcing anyone to be a part of my plots. 2: Discussed that, won't do it again 3: Ditto
8:35 PM
Raejin99: Plots, sure. But the stuff on the general IC conflict? I've read your replies, and it seems that you don't want to concede to the fact that your opinion that "people who don't want to participate it can ignore it" isn't popular among a good number of other players.
ColTheAwesome: Re 1: and then when it was brought up in chat, you kind of went "well this is you roleplay" and kind of ignored the fact that other people do in fact use handwaving as a viable part of their playing.
8:40 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: it's not handwaving I find illogical. it's handwaving that isn't noted anywhere in the comms
8:45 PM
Raejin99: Players are allowed to play however they wish. The fact is that their handwaving did not inconvenience YOU in anyway, but you assuming what their characters did could pretty much count as godmodding.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: look, i've played in a number of big multifandoms. that's how things are done in all of them. I had no idea the kind of thing you're reffering to even existed when I posted
Raejin99: Well now you know. It is how most of our players are comfortable playing, and it's not likely to change anytime soon.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: it may not be right for trans (or it might be, the mods will have to issue a ruling) but you can't fault me for assuming that trans works like pretty much every other big multifandom game out there
Raejin99: But in your posts it seems that you don't want to drop the fact that people should do things the way YOU are used to, even though most people don't actually want to.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: most people? how do you know that?
fagballs mcgillicuddy: if that's how the game is officially run, i'll accept that, even though I don't agree with it
fagballs mcgillicuddy: but i'm not going to retract my opinion that it's a bad idea
8:50 PM
Raejin99: *sigh* Look. You're entitled to your opinions. But the people who complained to us feel that you are just shoving your opinions down their throats without taking theirs into account.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: same way I feel. i'll agree to disagree with them. but it'd be nice to have some kind of way of knowing who actually wants what kind of handwaving
hawkyelf: We understand that that's your opinion.
8:55 PM
hawkyelf: Not everyone agrees with you, and it's a little disrespectful to repeat it over and over. It manages to imply, we assume completely unintentionally, that you are the only one with the right answer.
hawkyelf: And that's where the problem is.
Raejin99: The point of these arguments is to make progress. If there is none, there's no point.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: it's disrespectful to repeat yourself? I can see 'annoying' but disrespectful?
ColTheAwesome: It is rude to constantly have someone go "No this way is my way" at you.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: again, specific examples?
9:05 PM
ColTheAwesome: Alright, your own discussion post for example. You have made yourself perfectly vocal that you prefer politics to action. You do not need to respond to every single post saying "I like action" with "Well I like politics. Here are reasons x, y, and z I like politics in my roleplay"
fagballs mcgillicuddy: I didn't say I prefer politics to action. I said I prefer a mix and we don't have that
fagballs mcgillicuddy: or rather we don't in the official plots
hawkyelf: We will.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: I didn't know that at the time
Raejin99: Also, an example: http://community.livejournal.com/trans_pilgrims/253383.html?thread=2420935#t2420935
ColTheAwesome: It was always the plan, Hedge.
ColTheAwesome: I recall knowing this before I was a mod or a mod helper
ColTheAwesome: that there would be more diplomatic missions.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: I was never told, though people threw up ideas for them and we all agreed they were awesome
fagballs mcgillicuddy: and in that thread I restate my opinion...once.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: notice I didn't post anymore after that?
Raejin99: It is the general tone of your argument
9:10 PM
Raejin99: That first response comes off as combative.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: it's how most RPs work. if people don't want to use that system, fine. but it's not combative for me to say that's my preffered system
fagballs mcgillicuddy: next time i'll insert "I believe" before every post
fagballs mcgillicuddy: how about this as an alternative response: "I believe that it would be best for the game to adopt an official policy that if you haven't made any note of it, your character hasn't done it. I think that if you can't note what your character's doing, which takes two minutes, you should reevaluate wether you have time to play that character."
hawkyelf: The last sentence is what's combative.
ColTheAwesome: See, you could just leave off the whole second sentence about not being-
9:15 PM
ColTheAwesome: yeah Hawky beat me to it
fagballs mcgillicuddy: so I can't make any statement at all about activity requirements? If I say "I think we should have stricter activity checks." It's saying the same thing. that's the point of them.
hawkyelf: No, it's not saying the same thing.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: the point of an activity check is "If you can't do anything with your character because you're too busy, you don't have time to play them"
ColTheAwesome: yeah but being swamped for a couple days and forgetting to handwave something is not the same as having no time at all
fagballs mcgillicuddy: it was a month
Raejin99: Not before the actual meat of the plot started. It was only what, a week or so before the main part of the plot started that the characters really pushed the training? If people were swamped during that time, you can't really assume anything about their characters.
9:20 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: alright you know what? we're going in circles here. how about I not comment to the OOC discussion at all?
Raejin99: Fine.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: and in the future maybe you could ask people to bring concerns with me...to me? I thought that was our policy
Raejin99: If they are uncomfortable, they are allowed to go straight to the mods.
fagballs mcgillicuddy: i've been pretty cool headed in this whole thing. I haven't snapped at or insulted anyone.
Raejin99: The fact remains that they felt uncomfortable. That is enough for us.
9:25 PM
fagballs mcgillicuddy: so much for the free discussion of ideas. can I go now?
Raejin99: yes