Banned

[wolvenone]

Well tonight I was banned from the TSA's IRC channel, my place of hangout for about a decade. The reason is, to put it simply, that the admins decided that it was against the rules for me to discuss politics in any way shape or form, once they decided that I figured it was only a matter or time. I'm not going to go into anymore detail beyond

Comments

[viqsi]

If that's what you believe the reason to be, then I'm very frustrated at the whole affair, because that means that nobody really picked up on anything

[wolvenone]

While I am not one to easily change my beliefs, I'm pretty much fine with agreeing to disagree, plus I have a rule not to take differences in opinion personally. Getting emotional over a difference in viewpoints is in my point of view a waste of time and energy

[viqsi]

(Due to LJ comment size restrictions, this is a two-part reply. Part 1 is below.)

While I am not one to easily change my beliefs, I'm pretty much fine with agreeing to disagree, plus I have a rule not to take differences in opinion personally. Getting emotional over a difference in viewpoints is in my point of view a waste of time and energy.

That's all well and good so long as you know when it's time to pull out, and in the eyes of many your ability to recognize this has not been adequately demonstrated, unfortunately.

As for last night, basically a political discussion occurred on its own without prompting from me, during which I was almost entirely AFK during the entire affair. I came back, made a comment about there being a politics channel, which I had just opened and was preparing to move the discussion into to avoid violating my probation, and I was then informed that I had just violated my probation and was banned fairly promptly.Hrm. I'd be interested in seeing the chat logs of that, if that's possible. I may ask around.

[viqsi]

(This is part 2 of a two-part reply.)

All of that is mostly irrelevant though, it's speculation over inconsequential events in the past and has only little bearing on the future. As it stands I don't feel there is any future on TFchat anymore, the bans looks irreconcilable, and frankly I'm tired of having to put up with unwarranted hit and run quips about my religion and beliefs anyway.

My only regret is not being able to talk to the people I got along well with anymore, Phil, Snow, Morgana, I don't really have any other way of getting in touch with them for a real time conversation, so I will miss them. However I will not miss little comments about the Book of Mormon being fiction, my politics being horrific or my world views being idiotic.

Frankly I don't think anybody should have to put up with that sort of crap, so on some fronts I'm actually a little relieved.I think these events have a tremendous bearing on the future, because I virtually guarantee that if you do not take any important lessons from this then it is going to

[wolvenone]

I admit I have made some errors and have been too headstrong in the past, trying to deny that would be stupidity. That being said though, I don't see a reluctance to change viewpoints to be all that unusual or detrimental. Do I sometimes fail to take the time to admit where my debate partner is correct, yes, especially in a live format where there is a lot of emphasis on responding promptly

[viqsi]

(LJ forced me to make this another two-parter, just barely. Arr. Part 1 is below.)

I admit I have made some errors and have been too headstrong in the past, trying to deny that would be stupidity. That being said though, I don't see a reluctance to change viewpoints to be all that unusual or detrimental. Do I sometimes fail to take the time to admit where my debate partner is correct, yes, especially in a live format where there is a lot of emphasis on responding promptly."Sometimes" is one thing, but this is different. Failing to acknowledge issues happens far too often for you to be within average social norms - and my evidence for same is that these folks are actively saying that that's why they've banned you. (Perhaps not as much to your face, but that's largely because they don't trust you to actually do anything about that problem - which is somewhat justified, since you seem reluctant to think of it AS a problem that needs a solution regardless of the difficulty involved

[viqsi]

(Part 2 of another two-parter. Arr!)

Something else I feel inclined to point out is, that realistically I don't bring up politics all that frequently. This year is of course an election year so certain issues weigh more heavily peoples minds, during a normal year though the topic comes up far less.

Of course I do sometimes debate about other things, such as videogames, but generally those sorts of debates are far less passionate all around.

This is absolutely true, and this is why I'm trying so hard to get across the point that it is not your politics that are causing the problem. It is not necessarily the topic; that's just icing on the cake of annoyance. It is the way the topic is being presented, debated, and responded to.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the perception that I'm a unyielding combative person is likely at least in part connected to very recent events and conditions, which are not likely to persist at the level they are at now beyond the end of the year

[wolvenone]

I will say just for the record, that whenever a debate comes up I almost regret not being able to move it onto a different medium. I don't like debating in a crowd, in real time. It always feels like I get people inserting their foot into it every other sentence, thus making an already difficult situation more difficult.

I've noticed that I do a lot better when a discussion isn't done live, or in front of a lot of other people. It allows me to sit back and carefully say everything I want to say, instead of trying to quickly summarize everything I want to say into as few sentences as possible.

When I try to summarize on the fly, everything seems to come out wrong, I'll readily admit this. I do feel I've gotten a little better at this, but obviously not fast enough for other peoples tastes.

[viqsi]

I will say just for the record, that whenever a debate comes up I almost regret not being able to move it onto a different medium. I don't like debating in a crowd, in real time. It always feels like I get people inserting their foot into it every other sentence, thus making an already difficult situation more difficult.Conversation kind of works that way on IRC, unfortunately. I wish I had some sort of Super Power Secret or whatnot to share, but honestly it's just the sort of thing that really only gets easier with a hell of a lot of practice. (I find it to be so *very* worth it, tho

[wolvenone]

I feel inclined to point out that when the, "probation," was set down, I mentioned that I would take things to a specific politics channel to Jessie, and there was no objection to that course of action at that time. So I didn't feel that I was violating my probation by trying to move a political discussion I didn't start into one.

As for this situation, as far as I'm concerned it was the result of two things. Of course there's my general clumsiness in those sorts of situations that rubs people the wrong way, however I also feel that certain parties were over-emotionalizing things and over-reacted on multiple occasions.

Do I need more practice, of course, but I've been getting better, and compared to the arguments I would stumble my way into when I first arrived on IRC, the incidents lately have been very small.

[viqsi]

I feel inclined to point out that when the, "probation," was set down, I mentioned that I would take things to a specific politics channel to Jessie, and there was no objection to that course of action at that time. So I didn't feel that I was violating my probation by trying to move a political discussion I didn't start into one.

I don't recall seeing that at the time - from what I remember, what was suggested and accepted was "ban on discussion or else ban from server" - but it might have been prudent to check regardless. *shrug* Again, being on thin ice makes things much less simple than they normally would be.

As for this situation, as far as I'm concerned it was the result of two things. Of course there's my general clumsiness in those sorts of situations that rubs people the wrong way, however I also feel that certain parties were over-emotionalizing things and over-reacted on multiple occasions.Fair enough, but that first part is the part you should be focusing on the most, because that's the part you can and ought to do

[wolvenone]

Not sure if there's anything I can add. Might be one of those, "times to pull out," you mentioned earlier.

Well I guess I can only add that I'm aware I have issues and I'm working on. Though I do hope you'll forgive me for feeling miffed anyway.

[viqsi]

Ha! ;)
Fair enough. I have no issue with that last part (you being miffed), so long as that part immediately prior (aware, workin') is around. :)