yay democracy!
an interesting dialogue. my response is at the bottom.
Fuck Bush and his conservative hippy shit
Fuck George Bush. Fuck the republican party. Lies, decpite, minupulation. Nothing more than a greedy business man using all the loop holes he can. A warmonger on a rampage with the entire United States military force at his finger tips. Terrorism cannot be stopped by declaring war on a country. Terrorism will always exist reguardless who we are fighting. Terrorism lives in the hearts of people of all races, religions, governments, and ethnicities. Sure, there are obvious groups, but the idea of stopping terrorism by a war is absurd. The only thing it will do is inspire more people to sign up for terrorism and create more hate and more dislike towards America, and most importantly, more lives lost. This whole war on Iraq was a waste of money, time and American lives. Lives of men and women, sons and daughters, mothers and fathers over what? So we can force democracy onto the people of Iraq? Excuse after excuse we are fed by George Bush, his vice president, and the rest of his conservative party. First, it was "weapons of mass destruction" which were never found. Then, it was to sever the imaginary ties between terrorists and Saddam. After, to bring democracy and capture a dictator. WHat will it be next, to raise pink llamas to fuel the next fashion trend of llama furr pants? Seriously. I want to see another four years....correction. I'd like to still be alive in four years. "Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool, I'm out."
then...
In reply...
First of all, conservative hippy shit? The liberals are the hippies still thinking we live in the 1960's and protesting everything known to man just for the hell of it. Secondly, you sound exactly like the jerkoff you're gonna be voting for. Back in the 70's, Kerry claimed we could not defeat Communism. Sure enough, Ronald Regan stood up to the evil empire of the Soviet Union and the Cold War was over. Just as Republican ended Communism through an upopular war, and a republican ended slavery through an unpopular war (Lincoln and the Civil War), a Republican will end terrorism with an unpopular war.
Third, and I don't know how much more I can stress this, this war is not against one single country. It started in Afgahnistan, moved to Iraq, and if we want to be safe its going to need to continue through to Syria and Iran. Just like communism and facism before it, we are fighting an idea. Terrorrorism will thrive in the minds of the oppresed. Those who can't speak out for themselves because Al-queda is holding a gun to their heads are going to let terrorists speak for them until they are given another option. That option is democracy. Iraq is on the verge of becoming a major player just as Germany and Japan did before it thanks to our help.
What's worse, just lilke Communism and Nazism, this one wants America eradicated. Not because of our foreign policy, but just because of who we are. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness is the enemy of Muslim Extremism, not the American people. They aren't going to go away if we just leave them alone. That's why they came after us on September 11th. They took the fight to our doorstep because they want our ideals gone. So, we fought back. As long as the words "independence, democracy, freedom, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" exist in the world, terrorists will fight to see them die. So we either need to fight so those words are spoken in all languages, or we're going to have to give them up ourselves.
The people of Iraq are quite happy with their "imposed democracy" as many are getting out into the working force, creating a middle class, startign their own buisnesses like newspapers, and they have even begun their own talk radio stations like we have here in America. But you don't hear about that or the barrels or mustard gas found underground that Saddam used to kill his own people. You don't hear about the shelled out Jet Liner that Al-queda used to practice the attacks on September 11th that was found in Iraq, and you don't hear about the jet fighters hidden underground that we've discovered. Good news on the war on Iraq doesn't make for good entertainment thanks to our Liberal media. The New York Times, CNN, LA Times, NPR, these are where the tainted facts and biased news are coming from, not Bush.
America, and our dozens of allies in our coalition against Terror, is the last country to stand up for freedom in this world. Just because France and Germany don't agree with us (and why should they, they have no reason to think America fighting to save people under a brutal dictator could lead to a successful country, oh wait, YES THEY DO! Otherwise they'd be flying Nazi flags instead of their own stripes). America is not the only "Nation under God," it is not the only nation whose "creator" granted them their "unalienable rights" of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," but it is the only country who will fight to save those ideals. Not American ideals, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Ben Franklin knew of no such things. We are fighting for basics principls of existence that teorrorists are stripping away from good people.
Understand, as soon as we stop taking the fight to their doorstep, they will bring it to ours once again. You want to still be alive in four years? Ignoring the problem and appeasing those who will come after you no matter where you go is going to get you killed in a lot less than four years. Fight on, and we will not only liberate the Middle East of the evil and oppressive forces that allow terrorism to thrive, but we will liberate ourselves and the world of not being able to sleep easy at night, because they're afraid of an attack on their land.
You think you can't teach an oppressed people what makes America great? Come to my house and I'll play for you the Russian Red Army choir singing "Battle Hymn of the Republic," our battlecry as we marched into the south to liberate the slaves and preserve the union and stabalize the "shining city."
and now my reply:
my soul hurts. I'm not going to fight you on this, because I personally do not feel educated enough to, but I'll say that a lot of things you wrote sound wrong to me, and the important part is that you understand that. I could do all the petty things, like saying communism hasn't been defeated, and neither has slavery, but those aren't important.
I disagree when you say terrorism is an idea. terrorism, unlike communism, is simply a means to an end. imagine a kid who throws a temper tantrum because it works and all other lines of communication aren't as easy. first you mess up your sister's room, and then the parents slap you on the wrist, but don't fix your problem, so then you trash your parents vase or whatever. it's getting attention. people who haven't learned about peaceful ways of getting results and grew up in wartorn countries waving guns about in the air.
to move slightly from that topic, two things: although we consider it our obligation, what right do we have to go into iraq? or afghanistan? they are a sovereign nation, and should be respected as such. the only body that is supposed to have power over sovereign nations is the UN. I don't care about what works, it'll never work if you don't play by the rules in the now. lead by example.
second, could you point me towards some citation of barrels of mustard gas or hidden jet fighters? here is the first i've heard of it.
in the spirit of democracy(the debating and speaking one's mind part),
Ben Lasley (Zeph)
yeah. we're all crazy foos.
Fuck Bush and his conservative hippy shit
Fuck George Bush. Fuck the republican party. Lies, decpite, minupulation. Nothing more than a greedy business man using all the loop holes he can. A warmonger on a rampage with the entire United States military force at his finger tips. Terrorism cannot be stopped by declaring war on a country. Terrorism will always exist reguardless who we are fighting. Terrorism lives in the hearts of people of all races, religions, governments, and ethnicities. Sure, there are obvious groups, but the idea of stopping terrorism by a war is absurd. The only thing it will do is inspire more people to sign up for terrorism and create more hate and more dislike towards America, and most importantly, more lives lost. This whole war on Iraq was a waste of money, time and American lives. Lives of men and women, sons and daughters, mothers and fathers over what? So we can force democracy onto the people of Iraq? Excuse after excuse we are fed by George Bush, his vice president, and the rest of his conservative party. First, it was "weapons of mass destruction" which were never found. Then, it was to sever the imaginary ties between terrorists and Saddam. After, to bring democracy and capture a dictator. WHat will it be next, to raise pink llamas to fuel the next fashion trend of llama furr pants? Seriously. I want to see another four years....correction. I'd like to still be alive in four years. "Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool, I'm out."
then...
In reply...
First of all, conservative hippy shit? The liberals are the hippies still thinking we live in the 1960's and protesting everything known to man just for the hell of it. Secondly, you sound exactly like the jerkoff you're gonna be voting for. Back in the 70's, Kerry claimed we could not defeat Communism. Sure enough, Ronald Regan stood up to the evil empire of the Soviet Union and the Cold War was over. Just as Republican ended Communism through an upopular war, and a republican ended slavery through an unpopular war (Lincoln and the Civil War), a Republican will end terrorism with an unpopular war.
Third, and I don't know how much more I can stress this, this war is not against one single country. It started in Afgahnistan, moved to Iraq, and if we want to be safe its going to need to continue through to Syria and Iran. Just like communism and facism before it, we are fighting an idea. Terrorrorism will thrive in the minds of the oppresed. Those who can't speak out for themselves because Al-queda is holding a gun to their heads are going to let terrorists speak for them until they are given another option. That option is democracy. Iraq is on the verge of becoming a major player just as Germany and Japan did before it thanks to our help.
What's worse, just lilke Communism and Nazism, this one wants America eradicated. Not because of our foreign policy, but just because of who we are. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness is the enemy of Muslim Extremism, not the American people. They aren't going to go away if we just leave them alone. That's why they came after us on September 11th. They took the fight to our doorstep because they want our ideals gone. So, we fought back. As long as the words "independence, democracy, freedom, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" exist in the world, terrorists will fight to see them die. So we either need to fight so those words are spoken in all languages, or we're going to have to give them up ourselves.
The people of Iraq are quite happy with their "imposed democracy" as many are getting out into the working force, creating a middle class, startign their own buisnesses like newspapers, and they have even begun their own talk radio stations like we have here in America. But you don't hear about that or the barrels or mustard gas found underground that Saddam used to kill his own people. You don't hear about the shelled out Jet Liner that Al-queda used to practice the attacks on September 11th that was found in Iraq, and you don't hear about the jet fighters hidden underground that we've discovered. Good news on the war on Iraq doesn't make for good entertainment thanks to our Liberal media. The New York Times, CNN, LA Times, NPR, these are where the tainted facts and biased news are coming from, not Bush.
America, and our dozens of allies in our coalition against Terror, is the last country to stand up for freedom in this world. Just because France and Germany don't agree with us (and why should they, they have no reason to think America fighting to save people under a brutal dictator could lead to a successful country, oh wait, YES THEY DO! Otherwise they'd be flying Nazi flags instead of their own stripes). America is not the only "Nation under God," it is not the only nation whose "creator" granted them their "unalienable rights" of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," but it is the only country who will fight to save those ideals. Not American ideals, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Ben Franklin knew of no such things. We are fighting for basics principls of existence that teorrorists are stripping away from good people.
Understand, as soon as we stop taking the fight to their doorstep, they will bring it to ours once again. You want to still be alive in four years? Ignoring the problem and appeasing those who will come after you no matter where you go is going to get you killed in a lot less than four years. Fight on, and we will not only liberate the Middle East of the evil and oppressive forces that allow terrorism to thrive, but we will liberate ourselves and the world of not being able to sleep easy at night, because they're afraid of an attack on their land.
You think you can't teach an oppressed people what makes America great? Come to my house and I'll play for you the Russian Red Army choir singing "Battle Hymn of the Republic," our battlecry as we marched into the south to liberate the slaves and preserve the union and stabalize the "shining city."
and now my reply:
my soul hurts. I'm not going to fight you on this, because I personally do not feel educated enough to, but I'll say that a lot of things you wrote sound wrong to me, and the important part is that you understand that. I could do all the petty things, like saying communism hasn't been defeated, and neither has slavery, but those aren't important.
I disagree when you say terrorism is an idea. terrorism, unlike communism, is simply a means to an end. imagine a kid who throws a temper tantrum because it works and all other lines of communication aren't as easy. first you mess up your sister's room, and then the parents slap you on the wrist, but don't fix your problem, so then you trash your parents vase or whatever. it's getting attention. people who haven't learned about peaceful ways of getting results and grew up in wartorn countries waving guns about in the air.
to move slightly from that topic, two things: although we consider it our obligation, what right do we have to go into iraq? or afghanistan? they are a sovereign nation, and should be respected as such. the only body that is supposed to have power over sovereign nations is the UN. I don't care about what works, it'll never work if you don't play by the rules in the now. lead by example.
second, could you point me towards some citation of barrels of mustard gas or hidden jet fighters? here is the first i've heard of it.
in the spirit of democracy(the debating and speaking one's mind part),
Ben Lasley (Zeph)
yeah. we're all crazy foos.