Thoughts

Feb 03, 2011 21:18

I have been pondering something interesting as of late. It never occurred to me until recently to research the philosophy of the commonwealth until I realized how many great philosophers, Muggle and wizard alike, that touch on the subject. What amazes me is how many of them seem to say the same thing, which is that the best government is one under ( Read more... )

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toconquerdeath February 7 2011, 11:31:40 UTC
((OOC: Oh, oh God... I so want to rant at you about why Cicero's political opinions were just the mad ravings of a man who needed to justify executive power lest he face criminal prosecution for murder... Like Ginny-mun I am suffering under the weight of ex-plot knowledge. Wait! Harry's obsession with Tom gives me an in-character excuse to have done research in the four days since he posted! Thin Excuse Win!!))

I wouldn't pride myself on sharing philosophical positions with Cicero, the man was a hack, and his political opinions were largely the result of his own personal despair and mortal terror at the conditions his republic was suffering under. Further, he had to argue for executive powers and the whole "father of his country" concept, because they were the only thing standing between him and being convicted of murdering a bunch of people. Besides, whatever theory he may have written aside, the man was a dedicated ally of the system and the status quo in Republican Rome. He had bad luck with dictators and tyrants of all ( ... )

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will_to_power37 February 8 2011, 01:44:27 UTC
So, simply because the man had an agenda discredits what he wrote? I think we would all find ourselves out of luck and standing if that were the case!
I heartily enjoyed your description of our government. My sentiments exactly. It's a rather crude form of government, certainly less than ideal and in desperate need of some changes that I believe the philosophers I mentioned point to. That's quite the thought, isn't it? What if the wizarding world WAS united under one ruler? What if things could be changed, made more ideal? But as your "hack" Cicero would say, such things only occur from men of action, not men of mere talk.

((ooc: Nice rationalization there Harry-mun. XDDDD BTW YOU OWE ME PRESENTS> XDDDD))

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toconquerdeath February 8 2011, 13:58:47 UTC
There's a difference between possessing an agenda and serving it slavishly, as Cicero did for much of his later life. I don't blame the man for defending himself, but I think the things he wrote in that defense are intellectually less defensible because of it. Especially as some men say things to serve an agenda which transparently reveal it, and these are men whose opinions we can at least trust to be what they are, while others conceal their own self interest behind apparent high-mindedness, like the dishonest Cicero, and confuse everything.
Besides, like I said, whatever he wrote, Cicero proved himself-in what little capacity he had as a man of action-to be a supporter and defender of those at Rome who wanted the Republic to turn into an oligarchy, and come under the rule of the Senare and a man at political opposition to men who held solitary power - having the courage to prosecute friends of Sulla, and refuse the friendship of Caesar. I wouldn't use Cicero in my argument were I you, Tom. He's your enemy, too.

((OOC: Wail ( ... )

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will_to_power37 February 10 2011, 22:16:20 UTC
I am not entirely sure where you've gotten your opinions of Cicero. From what I have read, he was merely a Stoic trying to keep order in a revolting Empire. A man against change, against democracy. I do differ with him on quite a few things, but I appreciate the weaknesses he brings out about government. You cannot deny that. I do not particularly care about the man, merely the ideas and the ideas I believe are worth noting.

((ooc: It's cool, I can wait. XD Just making sure you hadn't forgotten! And Voldy really doesn't care if the people he reads about have secret agendas because, well, he does! XDDDD ))

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toconquerdeath February 10 2011, 22:20:49 UTC
I don't know if you remember the controversy post, well it inspired me. I read some Roman history over the break. From this reading comes my information on Cicero. I personally believe that it is unwise to deputize into one's arguments thinkers whose agendas and whose opinions can be used to undermine you. Think of it as constructive criticism - I think your entire point would look stronger if you left Cicero out.

((OOC: Harry almost said, "contructive criticism, from someone who was once your friend," but decided against it.))

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will_to_power37 February 10 2011, 22:24:47 UTC
I shall keep it in mind. He is certainly not my favourite but, to give some constructive criticisms back to you, I find it healthy to extract the useful from all persons and minds regardless of their backgrounds.

((ooc: pushing the personal button may have been fun. We haven't played that out at all...oo....maybe there should be an awkward confrontation sometime. Two ex-bffs meeting in the hall. What do they do??))

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