Sharing Some Wisdom

[will_to_power37]

Rereading some old books I found at the Muggle orphanage a few summers ago. I highly doubt these authors were really Muggles. They know too much...too much that falls in the favour of us as wizards. Here is one excerpt I am particularly fond of

Comments

[flaming_lion]

The suffering of many for the greater good? The amassing of individual pain in order to spark the attainment of some sort of "higher" purpose?

Men are individuals Tom, and while the great achievements of mankind are great they do not justify one moment of unneccessary pain inflicted on another. We are civilised and society is not a machine nor is it a mirror of the natural world, we ought to be above that. Mercy will not cause stagnation, rather it will inspire achievement out of a desire to alleviate suffering, that desire you seem to feel disdain for.

[will_to_power37]

I suppose you have forgotten that age old saying, "spare the rod, spoil the child"? No great achievement of mankind was born out of mercy or contentment but out of hardship and grief. Even parents understand that their children must suffering the consequences of their own actions and do not impede them making mistakes for sometimes it is only by our suffering that any real progress is made in our human condition. Nature herself demands that only the fittest among us survive, yet we daily cater to the weakest of our society and, in fact, smile upon the reproduction of the weak. No other species does this. You will find no mercy among the lions, yet we of the human race are dwindling in our strength, intellect, and ability to create because of this mercy you hold to that becomes rather a curse than a blessing. When have you seen a happy man move even a finger to make better his world? He has no need! It is suffering that causes need for ingenuity, and we do ourselves a grave danger to fight it and not embrace what Nature has ordained

[flaming_lion]

I never saw you for a religious man Tom. The age old saying comes from a book that instructs us not to suffer our own kind to live or have you forgotten? Perhaps you merely do not know the origens of that quote. Lions have no mercy, but lions do not build, they have no civilisation, they slaughter entire generations of cubs in order to mate with females - not because those cubs are flawed but for the pleasure of the act. We are better than animals, we must be. We are better than the natural world. Mercy is something that seperates us from animals

I swear I am a very devout Christian no matter what Voldy says. XD

[will_to_power37]

Religion has its uses for the masses, though it does and should not govern those with power, and for that reason it is instructional if not authoritative. Or are you suggesting that we adhere to every account in the infamous book you are alluding to, including the part where it bids us to exterminate and count as damned all of the wizarding race? The very fact that such a book that would see us all rot in hell calls for a sense of mercy and grace beyond our nature should immediately ring alarm bells in our heads. We are not better than the natural world for we are its offspring. We are merely more blessed but not enough to see that we have yet to use the tools Nature has given us, instead choosing to pollute our race rather than purify it as are Nature's ways.
Yes advances are being made but let me tell you where. In the Muggle realm where they already recognize the orders of Nature that I am prescribing, though not to the fullest. They abort unnecessary children, they sterilize the weak, they allow the old and ill to die without

Re: I swear I am a very devout Christian no matter what Voldy says. XD

[flaming_lion]

I am suggesting no such thing, I am merely pointing out the dubious origins of such a philosophy. Most religions call for mercy and grace, not merely Christianity. Most philosophies and creeds do as well, and I personally think that this implies that mercy is as much a human quality as cruelty. More human in that it is not one found in the animal world. We are products of nature yes but would you call a table a tree

[will_to_power37]

You seem to be under the illusion that this current way of life will yield nothing but good results. However, that is not the case. Instead what you see happening before you is a spiral downward to anarchy and all the vices you claim that I am promoting. Our country does not have the means necessary to support every wretch that walks this earth. In fact, among Muggles, there already is large scale misery and suffering that all the "goodwill" on Earth cannot alleviate. When one tries, as Communist countries have, to promote equality and be generous to all, in the end none come out with anything.
What I am promoting is the goodness of people as a whole without making ludicrous claims that we are in any way, shape, or form capable of making everyone happy. Not all can be powerful, not all can be rich, not all can be satisfied, but better that some should be than none. Better a regulated suffering than a chaotic one whose end no one can foresee. Better for those who can grasp power to take it instead of being hindered by making

[flaming_lion]

I do not think our current way is the right one. You will note that I said that I think the way we interact with muggles and their advances are apropriate and that we need to change it. I also think large parts of our society need an overhaul in order to function better.

I never claimed we could make everyone happy, there will always be misery on a personal level at least. But it will be possible to eventually institute a decent standard of living for all people, expecially if we learn to co operate with our muggle brethren. You suggest a fascist dictatorship and just like communism always fails so too does fascism, often more spectacularly and faster. Moderate socialism is the way forward with the key word on moderate. Also I do not think we ought be measured by our weakest members rather how we treat those members, and our society as a whole are how we ought to be measured.

[will_to_power37]

And exactly what is the basis of your claim? Some higher power? Some herd-like mentality that you cling to your brethern? Muggle governments always fail, even democracies, because they were not made to govern! All the best philosophers, even Muggle ones, call for a strict dictatorship as the best way to rule a Muggle commonwealth. Socrates, Plato, Hobbes, More, Nietzsche etc. Yet Muggles were not made to rule themselves. We were the ones given power, yet we do not use it.
I am glad you agree that things need to be change yet, as with all change, it will not occur without bloodshed and fighting. We must accept this. It is our nature. Fighting against our nature only weakens us for it leaves us more helpless and a slave to nature than before as repression of an instinct only adds fuel to its flame. You can agree for change, but what would you do to fix it? How would any idea of yours work without succumbing to the fact that suffering is a necessity to bring forth the best for humanity as a whole, to weed out the sick from the strong

[flaming_lion]

My basis as to why fascism fails is exactly the same as your proof that communism fails. The proof of history to date. My belief in socialism? That is merely a belief formed from reading political theory and my own opinions.

You can change with legislature. With discourse. It has been going on as long as government, and it is quiet and barely noticed and it is how real and lasting change is achieved. I will admit that sometimes reasoned discourse fails, the democratic process fails but even then violence ought to be the last resort. It is possible to have a meritocracy without bloodshed, the system needs better safeguards and to be purged from corruption first, but it is possible and I think this is a more valuable thing to work toward than some Darwinian culture where we fight to the death for positions of power.

[will_to_power37]

I think only time will prove the test here as we are currently throwing nothing but conjectures at each other. However, I see nothing to gain from idealism when faced with scientific fact. It would seem that both of us want the same thing yet are at odds at how to obtain. You do things your way sir and I shall do things mine and let us see who of us, in the end, achieves our means.

((ooc: GO PERCY! VOLDY-MUN HAS BEEN ROOTING FOR YOU THIS WHOLE TIME! Finally someone confronts Voldy's ethics! THANK YOU!!!! You did GREAT!!))

[flaming_lion]

I think you're right here. Time will tell whose method is right.