The tightrope and the net

[wiliqueen]

[Crossposted from my actor-blog as potentially of interest over here]

I saw Black Swan the other day. Like pretty much everyone else, I was blown away. Like Roger Ebert, I almost immediately wanted to rewatch The Red Shoes, something I haven't done in several years. That's partly because, though it's one of my all-time favorite films, it is -- for

Comments

[yahtzee63]

Although I definitely got the impression that Lily was probably guilty of nothing more than sucking up a little (and some illegal drug use), I'm not sure that we're meant to trust Thomas, or think that he isn't destructive. I mean, he's not a Satanic force of evil the way Nina sees him, but he's essentially browbeating Nina to try and made her have a sexual breakthrough, in public, which is ... just not how that works. (Granted, he doesn't know the level of repression Nina is having to work against, either in her own mind or via her scary-ass mother. His behavior would read as merely imperious, not cruel, if he were simply trying to wrest a better performance out of a person whose life was more normal.)

I thought it was an utterly terrific movie. I wanted Nina to have killed someone - anyone, really, but herself - and to have gotten away with it.

[wiliqueen]

No, I totally agree re: Thomas, and I think I was unclear. Lily is, in my view, definitely not the scheming rival.

Thomas most certainly is an abusive bastard who crosses all kinds of lines he shouldn't cross, but I felt like the audience was given license to hold him accountable for it, where these stories so often seem to expect us to reach the conclusion that it was somehow All Worth It and even that the victim of the abuse should be grateful. Yeah, he seems to care about Nina's well-being in a sort of vague abstract way, but it's so low on his priority list that it doesn't come to the fore until she's literally dying in front of him. (And even then, I think the panicky call for help is concern as much for the reputation of his company as for Nina.)

Not. Impressed.

I wanted Nina to have killed someone - anyone, really, but herself - and to have gotten away with it.

I'm not sure she didn't. Unfortunately, if she did, it was Beth, who least deserved it. (But might welcome it.)

[yahtzee63]

Ah, okay, I understand you now. Yes, we're definitely meant to blame Thomas - he may be competent or even brilliant at his job, but he's shown to be needlessly cruel and selfish. I bought his fear at the end as sincere enough -- I don't know if we're supposed to believe that he's such a jerk that he wouldn't care if she died -- but it's the kind of movie that could make it clear that this level of concern isn't enough.

I'm still not 100% sure that she killed herself. I think it might be only the White Swan that's dying, so to speak. Stupidly, I'm literal enough, even with a film like this, to think that dancing two acts of "Swan Lake" with a fatal gut wound just doesn't happen.

I hadn't contemplated what happened to Beth -- you're right, it's possible Nina killed it. It's also possible Nina never went to see her.

[wiliqueen]

Stupidly, I'm literal enough, even with a film like this, to think that dancing two acts of "Swan Lake" with a fatal gut wound just doesn't happen.

*chuckle* I had the same thought, but most of that time the glass was still there. If she was completely dissociated from the pain, and if she managed to miss critical muscles, it's just barely plausible by dint of how puncture wounds behave.

I hadn't contemplated what happened to Beth -- you're right, it's possible Nina killed her. It's also possible Nina never went to see her.

Very true. There are a LOT of things we'll never know for sure.

[yahtzee63]

My first thought, when we saw Lily just fine, was that Nina had instead killed her mother. Which I think might've been interesting -- and had Nina been able to dispose of the body, it's questionable as to whether anybody else on earth would've missed her, in the literal sense of noticing that she was gone.

[wiliqueen]

Very true. Heck, if Lily hadn't seen and made comments about her, I'd half wonder if her mother existed.

And now you've got me wondering if there mightn't be a point past which she didn't...

[yahtzee63]

One thought -- is it possible that some of Nina's attraction to Thomas is based in the fact that he's almost as cruel to her as she is to herself? He's trying to emotionally abuse that dark side out of her, while she's trying to do the same with physical abuse.

[tricksterquinn]

There was a point where Dala and I were discussing if she had killed her mother... when she came back with the blood on her hands. I was wondering when her mother was huddled in the living room before she left, ignoring her.

But then was the bit with the finger-smashing, and then the cruel twisting on the already-broken fingers, and that seems so important that I'm not sure it didn't happen. And just. Yeah.