Stuff wot I up to :o)
Diary: Week of 14/07: Kay, Queer as Folk, and Dungeon
Week started off well :o) I felt the need to scrounge up some extra money so I went to talk to Mr. Piggy to ask for some and he gave me back all the spare change I'd been giving him to look after. A quick (well, not quick...) count-up later and I had an extra eighty-five pounds :oD
Come Friday Lacuna_Raze came over to stay to watch DVDs. As well as more Tochwood (naturally) she also introduced me to Queer as Folk :oD Have no watched the first season; wasn't really sure of what to expect really (knew of it's existence obviously, just not what the show itself was like) but 'twas very good. Am pleased and will likely be buying the second season :o)
Lots of very in-shape and thin guys make me want to diet more though :o(
Lacuna_Raze also finally got her chance to tart me up on the Saturday before Dungeon as well, so I went out much more glitzy and shiny than usual, which was fun :o)
Bought pizzas on the way back, although Lacuna_Raze was her usual mean self and didn't pull her weight with eating them! Even less like the men from Queer as Folk now >:o/
A good weekend though :oD
Diary: Week of 21/07: Birthdays :o)
This week I had plans to be in London during Friday so I took the day off, which had the added advantage of being able to drag the poor Lacuna_Raze over on Thursday :oD
Much wine was drunk and DVDs watched as usual *nods* :o) Not that we're predictable or anything :oP
During the Friday I did the best I could manage to make myself look presentable and headed up to London to attend Wildeabandon's birthday gathering at L'Osteria 57 :o)
Was interesting to meet and talk to more of her social circle that I hadn't met before :o)
Saturday it was seph_hazard's birthday celebration at ciphergoth's place, which was good :o) Ended up staying longer than Wildeabandon in fact (although that's more to do with her needing to do stuff in the morning rather than anything else) :o)
After much gossiping about Lacuna_Raze (naturally) I ended up sleeping there and waking with a hangover that seemed less due to the wine and more due to the heat during the night :oP
I eventually stumbled my way back to Southampton to die of heat there instead :oP
Diary: Week of 18/07: Kays, DVDs and Dungeon :o)
Lots of work during the week, blah, blah :o)
Weekend I was a-visited by a Lacuna_Raze who brought her laptop over so we could watch films *nods*
Watched Torchwood, which I'm not sure affected me quite as much as it seems to have other people, and then began on Dexter :oD
(not really spoilery but maybe) There is something quite interesting about a serial killer you sympathise with but I think I'm really quite impressed by the Dexter character himself. I suspect there's quite a serious following of socially detached vaguely 'schizoid' people that could really like this show, although hopefully they don't all become serial kilers :o)
Am quite interested in seeing where the series goes :o)
Have also bought the He-Man live action movie with which to terrorise Lacuna_Raze at some point :oD (oh, and Heroes Season II has arrived!) :oD
Dungeon on Saturday naturally *nods* :o) Usual bit of socialising and dancing followed by Pizza *nods* :o)
Thoughts: Received Pronunciation, is it correct?
I recently come across a discussion/debate on Bill Cosby's comments about working class black people linky
As to Cosby's comments in particular it strikes me as a somewhat blithe dismissal of the problems of racism and 'culture of poverty' issues but more to (this particular) point it contains a lot of criticism towards various socio-economic and ethnic cultural markers that have nothing to do with intelligence or education.
A discussion of accent and 'proper ways to speak English' naturally lead on to more familiar ground.... British accents. In particular, Received Pronunciation's role as 'proper English'
I thought I'd bring my half of the debate over to my journal, because I think discussions of socio-economic prejudice and privilege are often under-discussed (the other half of the debate can be found on the above link).
Easiest way to do this is to examine a few of the sort of claims that I don't agree with.
RP is 'correct' English
Well, let's state at the basics.
Received Pronunciation is clearly the most institutionally recognised and approved of British accent. However, it shouldn't require too much thought to realise that 'institutionally recognised' does not logically imply 'good' or 'correct'.
It has to be asked by what criteria it is judged to be 'correct' and even what it means for an accent to be 'correct' anyway.
Of course looking at the history of RP makes it only too clear; RP was not chosen because because of any special merit beyond who it happened to be used by, that the accents that formed in the rich and wealthy society of the elite, particularly in universities.
Naturally, I don't think much of the idea that an accent be deemed 'correct' merely by association with the powerful.
Further, to the latter point, the whole idea of 'correct' is silly. An accent can't be 'correct' nor can a language. All accents, dialects and languages comprise is a general consensus amongst certain communities of people about how to communicate with each other and RP is merely the general consensus of how to pronounce words amongst the wealthy; nothing more.
An accent can be more widely used, or more easily understood by more people, but it can't be 'more correct'
RP is better than regional accents because it's less divisive
The idea here is that most other accents are divided by region, whilst RP is used across regions.
Well, for a start that's not entirely true... RP has very little use in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and is very much on the decline in Wales, and thus should be considered an English accent rather than a British accent. It is definitely not some kind of pan-UK standard.
But more to the point RP may not be divided on regional grounds but it is divided on class grounds. Between the two options I'll happily choose division by region.
But people's unwillingness to learn RP only aids class division
It's definitely true that the existence of these different accents do mark people out.
If everyone was using RP then no one could instantly look down their noses at you for not speaking it.
If there was no Northern accents no one could assume anyone using them as a thick knucklehead.
If no one spoke using a Welsh accent no one could accuse them of being backwards rustics who have sex with animals.
But is that really a problem with the people using the accents or the people who judge people by their accents?
Why is it that the people who the prejudices are aimed against are expected to side-step the problem by brushing it under the carpet rather than the people with the prejudices solving it by calling themselves on it and trying to abandon them?
It's better to have one standard accent so we can all understand each other better
This one is also combined with 'RP will make you more employable!'
I find that doesn't really equate with my experience of employment.
It has never been my experience in work that there was preference given to RP speakers, certainly not for the vast majority of jobs. I'm currently working in what is (at least partially) a call centre and even in that communications based job it does not seem to be true (there may be preference given to people who talk using a standard English dialect, but not in regards to accent)
Not even the BBC holds it as a requirement any more, with a variety of regional accents appearing on air.
And those are media jobs, why on Earth should people outside of those fields feel the need to alter their accent to conform to that of the rich? What do they or their nation really have to gain from it?
RP is taught across the globe and thus better understood by foreigners
This really isn't much more than a wider version of the previous one.
Beyond the fact that it has to be raised that the only reason why RP is favoured in this way is because of it's association with the wealthy, again this ought to mean nothing to the average Brit, certainly not any outside of communications careers.
And, to be honest, I find it very hard to believe that this isn't severely exaggerated. Okay, so very strong regional accents may be hard for people to understand, but mild regional accents? To that matter, I actually think that strong RP accents are in fact harder to understand than mild regional accents.
If we don't encourage RP then we're have an American accent as the standard instead
I think this last sort of comment is quite telling.
If we were to take seriously the arguments I've previously alluded to then this sort of statement seems very odd. If all we care about is comprehensibility, good communication and a lack of social division, then what exactly would be wrong with an American accent being the standard for English? If the previous arguments hold firm then one standard accent for English in all nations would be a good thing and, let's face it, the Americans have a much better chance of making that a reality than we do.
But of course we don't want that... it's unpatriotic, and a betrayal of our culture and our identity.
But if we're going to recognise that factor then why on Earth should the 98% of us that don't speak using RP give up our natural regional accents (most of which are much older than RP) for the sake of the 2% that do? Is there a good explanation for this request other than an unthinking entitlement complex on behalf of people who speak RP?
Personally, I would sooner be speaking in an American accent before I adopted RP and conversations as described only reinforce that sentiment. I've never been one to absorb all the dialect and accent of the council estate I grew up with... mostly because I don't identify with it... but I'll be damned if I'll be pretending to be middle-class anytime soon.
It's interesting that this sprung out of a discussion on ethnicity; I suspect I have very similar thoughts on the expectation of black people to adopt white cultural norms.
Link: British accents in media: linky
Link: Dead Ringers does Doctor Who linky,
Link: Cruxshadows Lego style: linky
Link: Roman Elvis: linky
Link: Paternity leave: linky
Link: Council bans atheist websites: linky
Link: How delightfully odd... linky (stolen from SweetCyanide)
Plans: Totally Wrecked - Goth Boat Party - 20th September - linky
Week started off well :o) I felt the need to scrounge up some extra money so I went to talk to Mr. Piggy to ask for some and he gave me back all the spare change I'd been giving him to look after. A quick (well, not quick...) count-up later and I had an extra eighty-five pounds :oD
Come Friday Lacuna_Raze came over to stay to watch DVDs. As well as more Tochwood (naturally) she also introduced me to Queer as Folk :oD Have no watched the first season; wasn't really sure of what to expect really (knew of it's existence obviously, just not what the show itself was like) but 'twas very good. Am pleased and will likely be buying the second season :o)
Lots of very in-shape and thin guys make me want to diet more though :o(
Lacuna_Raze also finally got her chance to tart me up on the Saturday before Dungeon as well, so I went out much more glitzy and shiny than usual, which was fun :o)
Bought pizzas on the way back, although Lacuna_Raze was her usual mean self and didn't pull her weight with eating them! Even less like the men from Queer as Folk now >:o/
A good weekend though :oD
Diary: Week of 21/07: Birthdays :o)
This week I had plans to be in London during Friday so I took the day off, which had the added advantage of being able to drag the poor Lacuna_Raze over on Thursday :oD
Much wine was drunk and DVDs watched as usual *nods* :o) Not that we're predictable or anything :oP
During the Friday I did the best I could manage to make myself look presentable and headed up to London to attend Wildeabandon's birthday gathering at L'Osteria 57 :o)
Was interesting to meet and talk to more of her social circle that I hadn't met before :o)
Saturday it was seph_hazard's birthday celebration at ciphergoth's place, which was good :o) Ended up staying longer than Wildeabandon in fact (although that's more to do with her needing to do stuff in the morning rather than anything else) :o)
After much gossiping about Lacuna_Raze (naturally) I ended up sleeping there and waking with a hangover that seemed less due to the wine and more due to the heat during the night :oP
I eventually stumbled my way back to Southampton to die of heat there instead :oP
Diary: Week of 18/07: Kays, DVDs and Dungeon :o)
Lots of work during the week, blah, blah :o)
Weekend I was a-visited by a Lacuna_Raze who brought her laptop over so we could watch films *nods*
Watched Torchwood, which I'm not sure affected me quite as much as it seems to have other people, and then began on Dexter :oD
(not really spoilery but maybe) There is something quite interesting about a serial killer you sympathise with but I think I'm really quite impressed by the Dexter character himself. I suspect there's quite a serious following of socially detached vaguely 'schizoid' people that could really like this show, although hopefully they don't all become serial kilers :o)
Am quite interested in seeing where the series goes :o)
Have also bought the He-Man live action movie with which to terrorise Lacuna_Raze at some point :oD (oh, and Heroes Season II has arrived!) :oD
Dungeon on Saturday naturally *nods* :o) Usual bit of socialising and dancing followed by Pizza *nods* :o)
Thoughts: Received Pronunciation, is it correct?
I recently come across a discussion/debate on Bill Cosby's comments about working class black people linky
As to Cosby's comments in particular it strikes me as a somewhat blithe dismissal of the problems of racism and 'culture of poverty' issues but more to (this particular) point it contains a lot of criticism towards various socio-economic and ethnic cultural markers that have nothing to do with intelligence or education.
A discussion of accent and 'proper ways to speak English' naturally lead on to more familiar ground.... British accents. In particular, Received Pronunciation's role as 'proper English'
I thought I'd bring my half of the debate over to my journal, because I think discussions of socio-economic prejudice and privilege are often under-discussed (the other half of the debate can be found on the above link).
Easiest way to do this is to examine a few of the sort of claims that I don't agree with.
RP is 'correct' English
Well, let's state at the basics.
Received Pronunciation is clearly the most institutionally recognised and approved of British accent. However, it shouldn't require too much thought to realise that 'institutionally recognised' does not logically imply 'good' or 'correct'.
It has to be asked by what criteria it is judged to be 'correct' and even what it means for an accent to be 'correct' anyway.
Of course looking at the history of RP makes it only too clear; RP was not chosen because because of any special merit beyond who it happened to be used by, that the accents that formed in the rich and wealthy society of the elite, particularly in universities.
Naturally, I don't think much of the idea that an accent be deemed 'correct' merely by association with the powerful.
Further, to the latter point, the whole idea of 'correct' is silly. An accent can't be 'correct' nor can a language. All accents, dialects and languages comprise is a general consensus amongst certain communities of people about how to communicate with each other and RP is merely the general consensus of how to pronounce words amongst the wealthy; nothing more.
An accent can be more widely used, or more easily understood by more people, but it can't be 'more correct'
RP is better than regional accents because it's less divisive
The idea here is that most other accents are divided by region, whilst RP is used across regions.
Well, for a start that's not entirely true... RP has very little use in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and is very much on the decline in Wales, and thus should be considered an English accent rather than a British accent. It is definitely not some kind of pan-UK standard.
But more to the point RP may not be divided on regional grounds but it is divided on class grounds. Between the two options I'll happily choose division by region.
But people's unwillingness to learn RP only aids class division
It's definitely true that the existence of these different accents do mark people out.
If everyone was using RP then no one could instantly look down their noses at you for not speaking it.
If there was no Northern accents no one could assume anyone using them as a thick knucklehead.
If no one spoke using a Welsh accent no one could accuse them of being backwards rustics who have sex with animals.
But is that really a problem with the people using the accents or the people who judge people by their accents?
Why is it that the people who the prejudices are aimed against are expected to side-step the problem by brushing it under the carpet rather than the people with the prejudices solving it by calling themselves on it and trying to abandon them?
It's better to have one standard accent so we can all understand each other better
This one is also combined with 'RP will make you more employable!'
I find that doesn't really equate with my experience of employment.
It has never been my experience in work that there was preference given to RP speakers, certainly not for the vast majority of jobs. I'm currently working in what is (at least partially) a call centre and even in that communications based job it does not seem to be true (there may be preference given to people who talk using a standard English dialect, but not in regards to accent)
Not even the BBC holds it as a requirement any more, with a variety of regional accents appearing on air.
And those are media jobs, why on Earth should people outside of those fields feel the need to alter their accent to conform to that of the rich? What do they or their nation really have to gain from it?
RP is taught across the globe and thus better understood by foreigners
This really isn't much more than a wider version of the previous one.
Beyond the fact that it has to be raised that the only reason why RP is favoured in this way is because of it's association with the wealthy, again this ought to mean nothing to the average Brit, certainly not any outside of communications careers.
And, to be honest, I find it very hard to believe that this isn't severely exaggerated. Okay, so very strong regional accents may be hard for people to understand, but mild regional accents? To that matter, I actually think that strong RP accents are in fact harder to understand than mild regional accents.
If we don't encourage RP then we're have an American accent as the standard instead
I think this last sort of comment is quite telling.
If we were to take seriously the arguments I've previously alluded to then this sort of statement seems very odd. If all we care about is comprehensibility, good communication and a lack of social division, then what exactly would be wrong with an American accent being the standard for English? If the previous arguments hold firm then one standard accent for English in all nations would be a good thing and, let's face it, the Americans have a much better chance of making that a reality than we do.
But of course we don't want that... it's unpatriotic, and a betrayal of our culture and our identity.
But if we're going to recognise that factor then why on Earth should the 98% of us that don't speak using RP give up our natural regional accents (most of which are much older than RP) for the sake of the 2% that do? Is there a good explanation for this request other than an unthinking entitlement complex on behalf of people who speak RP?
Personally, I would sooner be speaking in an American accent before I adopted RP and conversations as described only reinforce that sentiment. I've never been one to absorb all the dialect and accent of the council estate I grew up with... mostly because I don't identify with it... but I'll be damned if I'll be pretending to be middle-class anytime soon.
It's interesting that this sprung out of a discussion on ethnicity; I suspect I have very similar thoughts on the expectation of black people to adopt white cultural norms.
Link: British accents in media: linky
Link: Dead Ringers does Doctor Who linky,
Link: Cruxshadows Lego style: linky
Link: Roman Elvis: linky
Link: Paternity leave: linky
Link: Council bans atheist websites: linky
Link: How delightfully odd... linky (stolen from SweetCyanide)
Plans: Totally Wrecked - Goth Boat Party - 20th September - linky