Blue Triskele Wicca?

[ianphanes]

I just posted a reflection in my LJ about possibly calling the style my coven practices Blue Triskele Wicca.  I would be interested in reactions from folks here, especially Blue Star folk.

Blue Triskele Wicca?

Disclaimer:  I am using the word Wicca in a slightly broader sense than the definition used in this community.  Blue Star and Blue Triskele

Comments

Re: Slightly broader?

[ianphanes]

1. I said that we don't use a degree system, but I also said that we are initiatory. Some people refer to traditions like ours as "one-degree systems", but that seems silly, except in a a document comparing different initiatory system. Perhaps it would help if I explained that we perform a dedication ritual only after someone has guested multiple times and that an individual must spend *at least* a year as a dedicant before asking for initiation. I am convinced that we are a priesthood, but that we don't use a degree system to structure our priesthood.

2. We added a third deity, but we did not remove or change the other two. And I did say that was our most radical change from our Welsh Trad/Blue Star heritage. :)

3. We are very orthopraxic. Substantially more so than the Alexandrians in our area. (Note my comment that the altar arrangement hadn't changed substantially in over a quarter of a century.) But we believe that changes in the BoS can be decided by a coven without involving a whole Tradition.

Perhaps it would help if I had a better sense of how broadly you define Wicca:

Do you consider Blue Star to be Wicca? Or do you only recognize BTW as Wicca? May I ask what trad(s) you are an initiate of, as a point of reference? (The "May I" is there because I do not believe you have any obligation to share that information. That's a request for context, nothing more. If you're not comfortable providing that information, please disregard that question.)

1. Do you believe that only a three degree system is acceptable for Wicca? At what degree is a Wiccan initiate a priest? Why is a degree system necessary for a priesthood? Were the ancient pagan temples that didn't have a degree system not a priesthood as you use the term? Am I right in assuming that you consider the threefold ministries of deacon, priest, and bishop the degree system of Christian priesthood?

2 & 3. Do you believe that nothing can ever be added to Wicca? Do you believe that changes can never be made in the BoS?

Thank you for contributing to the discussion. I don't suppose you have any response to my original question about the name "Blue Triskell"?

Re: Slightly broader?

[tryst_inn]

I'm not a Blue Star Initiate, I'm a BTW Initiate (of Silver Crescent and Kingstone). There are members of both these Traditions who are also Blue Star and they have told me they do not consider Blue Star to be Wicca, so that's all I have to go by. Is that enough? I don't know, because once again, I'm not a Blue Star Initiate.

have been told that not all Blue Star is BTW and that is - concerning. I'm also told it was founded as an eclectic tradition, and so that seems to speak volumes, as well. So perhaps not all Blue Star is BTW, but only those that are, which places me again at the statement, I am not Blue Star. I can only go from what I have been told by: a) Blue Star folks, b) Elders who are CONSIDERABLY more knowledgeable about these things than I and c) my own Elders. And frankly, they cannot come to any kind of consensus. So because there is no consensus, I can't make any over-arching statement other than "I don't believe so, but I don't know". Clear as mud?

To answer your questions.

1. Yes. Dear Gods, yes. An Initiate of Wicca is a Priest/ess. A degree system is required for the priesthood of the Wicca. I cannot speak for the other pagan religions, I am not an Initiate of those, I am an Initiate of Wicca. And I certainly cannot speak for Christianity - I never was. *shudder*

2. Added yes, taken away, no. Stripping the degrees is a fairly HUGE take away. Changes? Absolutely NOT without the Tradition's Elders agreement. Which is, as a 2nd degree, as they say "above my paygrade".

3. Frankly, whatever changes are made aren't anyone's business outside that Tradition or line. What do your Blue Star Elders in the upline say about this BOS and your use of the term Blue? How do they feel about a Third degree Blue Star creating an entirely new Tradition? Are they going to consider it a daughter Tradition? A sister Tradition?

My biggest concern honestly is the spelling of Triskell, but only because I've not seen that spelling. May I ask the provenance?

Re: Slightly broader?

[ianphanes]

We *are* our tradition's elders. Blue Star was not a trad when my initiators broke from Tzip and Franque. (With full approval from Franque and threats from Tzip. But it was specifically Tzip's behaviors that caused the separation, so that wasn't really a surprise.) And Franque, when Caspian was in email contact with him a few years back, was fully supportive of us.

As for our status as Wicca, it all depends on how broadly one defines it. If one requires lineage from the New Forest, we are obviously not Wicca. I made quite explicit in my post where our lineage comes from. I also made explicit that I am using the word Wicca more broadly than BTW. It appears that your definition doesn't match mine, giving us no ground for discussion of that specific point.

Re: Slightly broader?

[tryst_inn]

And more broadly a definition than this community uses - which does require New Forest connection, Ian.

Re: Slightly broader?

[ianphanes]

Let me quote my original disclaimer:
I am using the word Wicca in a slightly broader sense than the definition used in this community.

I've clearly stated on several occasions that neither we nor Blue Star are BTW or Wicca-as-defined-in-this-community. What's more, my reflection was not posted in this community, but in my LiveJournal.

I did not post a link here to attempt to claim a spurious status as Wicca-as-defined-in-this-community. My posting here is because I know there are a number of Blue Star folks in this community. The use of "Wicca" was not the focus on my reflection, but the use of triskele to both parallel and differ from star. The word Wicca is there partially because it's part of the name of Blue Star Wicca.

Please note, I am not asking you to change your definition of Wicca, or to validate us as Wicca. Nor am I asking this community to change its definition of Wicca to match mine. I invited people to go read something in my LiveJournal and respond there if they felt moved to do so. I'm not trying to create any discomfort for anyone here.