While I will be curious to see how Karofsky is handled in future episodes, Ryan Murphy has stated (second and last questions especially) that he was trying to bring bullying to attention with Karofsky's story arc. Especially gay bullying, but bullying and assault in schools in general. With the Trevor Project circulating, something Chris Colfer supports as well, gay bullying in high schools is extremely visible in the media right now. I don't feel as though it's subtle or nuanced at all that Glee would address it, as they do claim to be a show about the regular high school experience +music.
I think that taking on a character like Karofsky means taking on a certain amount of responsibility for how that bullying is portrayed. A lot of people have experienced harassment and hate in their lives, and it's really a rather volatile and sensitive subject. While you may see the crush he has on Kurt as 'harmless,' from a reader's perspective it does feel like a romanticization, or even victim-blaming. I don't have to tell you this is a real and present issue IRL, and handling it, even in RP, is something that requires a certain amount of delicacy.
Karofsky hasn't mentioned Kurt or seemed interested in him in any way since leaving McKinley. I, personally, would be extremely jarred [and offended] if Ryan Murphy were to address it as a crush in the upcoming episodes. To an audience, either yours or the shows, the mere allusion of Karofsky having a romantic interest in Kurt feels like a justification. I'm not saying you actually feel anything he does is right. I genuinely believe you when you say it isn't your intention to come across that way, but I think you should know that it does.
To portray someone who sexually assaults another person as acting out of some deranged caring place is offensive. We aren't meant to sympathize with Karofsky for what he does to Kurt. Perhaps we can relate to him, and what he feels, but I do think you aren't treating the situation with enough delicacy. While it may be your decision to play Karofsky as having those feelings, I would suggest you do more research into the subject - especially having no experience in the area yourself. Being in the closet is an awful, binding feeling, and I still hold to my opinion that Karofsky was continuing the theme of lashing out rather than committing an act inspired by romantic feelings. The kiss itself was violent, and Kurt actually looks as if he's been hit when he pulls away. To me, to imply that Karofsky cares about Kurt is along the same vein as claiming a rapist cares about his victims.
I want nothing more than for us to be able to resolve this. As your castmate and gamemate, I want to be able to continue writing with you and building David and Blaine's CR. Thank you for reading my concerns, and I hope that you take them to heart.
1/2 because I broke the character limitwhy_so_meApril 15 2011, 15:07:19 UTC
Okay, I...kinda of think you're putting words into my mouth that I didn't actually say, namely: I am not trying to say that anything Karofsky does/says is harmless. Clearly it isn't, and clearly what he's done is creepy and awful and wrong. I've never claimed otherwise.
I'm also not saying that Glee isn't trying to address bullying, or that Dave isn't a bully, or that what he's done isn't harassment. But just because they're addressing the subject does not mean they're going to do it 100% in line with how you're thinking it should be, or how you would want it to be. (Not that it necessarily means it's going to play out how I'm predicting, either, but as I said in my earlier reply: we'll only know for sure as more episodes play out). Having one character kiss another (without some sort of external force forcing it)on TV is going to be read as doing it out of feelings (not necessarily good/healthy feelings, but I'll get into that next paragraph), and if they were to back off from that I think people would feel misled.
That said, I think you may have misunderstood what I'm trying to come across with when I say he has feelings for Kurt. I'm not trying to say he has a fluffy/cutesy crush and this is just a case of pulling the pigtails of whoever you have a crush on, and I'm certainly not trying to characterize Karofsky as a caring person, even a misguided one. The guy clearly has a boatload of issues and needs help. When I say he has feelings, I do not mean that they are healthy ones or that what he's doing is normal.
And I really don't think most people are reading this as a justification (or if they are, they're being remarkably silent on the subject). Have I tried to humanize Dave? Yes, I admit that. But I've also tried to humanize Jezebel and Pegasus as well, and show them as more than one note villains, but I don't think anyone would assume that meant I was trying to justify kidnapping or murder. I agree that Dave isn't supposed to be sympathetic when he harasses Kurt, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a human motivation that isn't just harassment out of anger. Giving Dave a reason for what he does is not meant to be a signal that it's clearly okay, same as with any other character that does terrible things, and I think you might be misjudging the people at DDD (and the Glee audience) if you think that people can't tell the difference. I've never seen anyone, on Plurk or ICly or online say that if he's doing it out of feelings to Kurt, that that makes it okay. If someone on DDD is saying that, let me know because I haven't seen it crop up.
As for comparing his feelings to a rapist...look, what Karofsky did was sexual assault, I am not saying it isn't. But there is a very steep degree of severity between kissing someone against their will and raping someone, and I feel like making that comparison is going to be inviting way too much heated feelings into this. Both actions are awful, and you're right, the kiss was violent and Kurt did look like he took a punch to the face. But Dave also backed off right after he saw how Kurt looked. He did not rape him.
I do read up on gay bullying, and I do pay attention to the topic in the news whenever I see it come up (and I do read the news in some form or another pretty much every day). So while I do know and will never know what it truly is like to be gay in any form, yes, I have read on the subject and still do, though admittedly most coverage is straight-on-gay bullying and not closeted-gay-on-gay. And I really am trying to play him with sensitivity (which is why he doesn't go after every gay member of the comm even if he would ICly, or use the same severity of slurs as he would probably use ICly).
That being said, when you say things like I have to take responsibility for how bullying is portrayed, and that I have to consider my "audience", I feel like you're placing a lot more weight on my RPing than is justified. I am not trying to be some sort of advocate by playing him (especially since, again, I don't have the life experience to ever justify such a thing); this is a game, not a social/political treatise. I picked up Dave because I like Glee and I wanted to play more with Lylith's Kurt and Lylith liked the idea. That's really all there is to it. I'm not trying to put him on a pedestal as an example for anyone (and I honestly don't think most people are assuming that from him). Saying I have some moral responsibility to play him a certain specific way seems like blowing things way out of proportion.
I think that taking on a character like Karofsky means taking on a certain amount of responsibility for how that bullying is portrayed. A lot of people have experienced harassment and hate in their lives, and it's really a rather volatile and sensitive subject. While you may see the crush he has on Kurt as 'harmless,' from a reader's perspective it does feel like a romanticization, or even victim-blaming. I don't have to tell you this is a real and present issue IRL, and handling it, even in RP, is something that requires a certain amount of delicacy.
Karofsky hasn't mentioned Kurt or seemed interested in him in any way since leaving McKinley. I, personally, would be extremely jarred [and offended] if Ryan Murphy were to address it as a crush in the upcoming episodes. To an audience, either yours or the shows, the mere allusion of Karofsky having a romantic interest in Kurt feels like a justification. I'm not saying you actually feel anything he does is right. I genuinely believe you when you say it isn't your intention to come across that way, but I think you should know that it does.
To portray someone who sexually assaults another person as acting out of some deranged caring place is offensive. We aren't meant to sympathize with Karofsky for what he does to Kurt. Perhaps we can relate to him, and what he feels, but I do think you aren't treating the situation with enough delicacy. While it may be your decision to play Karofsky as having those feelings, I would suggest you do more research into the subject - especially having no experience in the area yourself. Being in the closet is an awful, binding feeling, and I still hold to my opinion that Karofsky was continuing the theme of lashing out rather than committing an act inspired by romantic feelings. The kiss itself was violent, and Kurt actually looks as if he's been hit when he pulls away. To me, to imply that Karofsky cares about Kurt is along the same vein as claiming a rapist cares about his victims.
I want nothing more than for us to be able to resolve this. As your castmate and gamemate, I want to be able to continue writing with you and building David and Blaine's CR. Thank you for reading my concerns, and I hope that you take them to heart.
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I'm also not saying that Glee isn't trying to address bullying, or that Dave isn't a bully, or that what he's done isn't harassment. But just because they're addressing the subject does not mean they're going to do it 100% in line with how you're thinking it should be, or how you would want it to be. (Not that it necessarily means it's going to play out how I'm predicting, either, but as I said in my earlier reply: we'll only know for sure as more episodes play out). Having one character kiss another (without some sort of external force forcing it)on TV is going to be read as doing it out of feelings (not necessarily good/healthy feelings, but I'll get into that next paragraph), and if they were to back off from that I think people would feel misled.
That said, I think you may have misunderstood what I'm trying to come across with when I say he has feelings for Kurt. I'm not trying to say he has a fluffy/cutesy crush and this is just a case of pulling the pigtails of whoever you have a crush on, and I'm certainly not trying to characterize Karofsky as a caring person, even a misguided one. The guy clearly has a boatload of issues and needs help. When I say he has feelings, I do not mean that they are healthy ones or that what he's doing is normal.
And I really don't think most people are reading this as a justification (or if they are, they're being remarkably silent on the subject). Have I tried to humanize Dave? Yes, I admit that. But I've also tried to humanize Jezebel and Pegasus as well, and show them as more than one note villains, but I don't think anyone would assume that meant I was trying to justify kidnapping or murder. I agree that Dave isn't supposed to be sympathetic when he harasses Kurt, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a human motivation that isn't just harassment out of anger. Giving Dave a reason for what he does is not meant to be a signal that it's clearly okay, same as with any other character that does terrible things, and I think you might be misjudging the people at DDD (and the Glee audience) if you think that people can't tell the difference. I've never seen anyone, on Plurk or ICly or online say that if he's doing it out of feelings to Kurt, that that makes it okay. If someone on DDD is saying that, let me know because I haven't seen it crop up.
As for comparing his feelings to a rapist...look, what Karofsky did was sexual assault, I am not saying it isn't. But there is a very steep degree of severity between kissing someone against their will and raping someone, and I feel like making that comparison is going to be inviting way too much heated feelings into this. Both actions are awful, and you're right, the kiss was violent and Kurt did look like he took a punch to the face. But Dave also backed off right after he saw how Kurt looked. He did not rape him.
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That being said, when you say things like I have to take responsibility for how bullying is portrayed, and that I have to consider my "audience", I feel like you're placing a lot more weight on my RPing than is justified. I am not trying to be some sort of advocate by playing him (especially since, again, I don't have the life experience to ever justify such a thing); this is a game, not a social/political treatise. I picked up Dave because I like Glee and I wanted to play more with Lylith's Kurt and Lylith liked the idea. That's really all there is to it. I'm not trying to put him on a pedestal as an example for anyone (and I honestly don't think most people are assuming that from him). Saying I have some moral responsibility to play him a certain specific way seems like blowing things way out of proportion.
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