The Hidden Heroines of Sherlock

[wellingtongoose]

There has been a great deal of noise made about the blatant sexism of BBC Sherlock and I often wonder have I been watching the same show?

Moffat and Gatiss have (intentionally or otherwise) given us great examples of strong, independent professional women. We just have to look at beyond the obvious.

This isn't a discussion about sexism in Sherlock.

Comments

[darth_stitch]

You're going to make me watch Reichenbach Fall without the safety net of Series 3, aren't you? I will blame you for the ensuing sobbing wreck that I will be afterwards

[neverminetohold]

I second all of that, though it's really sad that the show doesn't allow for more screen-time for the heroines...

Though TV gives us more tough and independent women lately, like Det. Carter in "Person of Interest" or Jessica Pearson (and the other women) in "Suits"; I like that.

[wellingtongoose]

Thanks for your support!

[sherlockholmes]

If you want to talk about the validity of these characters, maybe you should do so without making it an extension of your sexism argument because you're still not hitting on what the fundamental problem with the way the show treats it's women is.

I think that you're missing the point when people talk about the fact that we say these characters are defined by their relationships by the men on this show. Saying that they are defined by their relationships by individuals who happen to be men is the same as saying that the majority of violence against women is perpetuated by... people who happen to be men. You're missing the point.

Like I've said numerous times in your other post. Making a woman a detective or a doctor isn't good enough when you consistently abuse her. Please, consider the following.

Sally Donovan is treated differently than her male colleaguesNo one else on the show is insulted for their sexuality or their sexual proclivities or indiscretions. John, for example, has a string of girlfriends who he can't even keep

[sherlockholmes]

Sorry While I value your other comments, I do not agree that Sally is treated as a a manipulative villain working against the beloved hero of the show in TRF,I also do not read her motivition of exposing Sherlock as revenge, does she hold a resentment against Sherlock, She certaintly does, is it one of main reasons that She had concluded Sherlock is the criminal so quickly ? I think so.But I don't think her behaviour is mainly driven by personal hatered

[sherlockholmes]

I remember just before the little girl scream accident, she actually pay respect and heartly praise to Sherlock

I read that as sarcasm, to be honest. (Sarcasm on Sally's part in the episode, not on your part with the comment)

If there is a ture manipulative villain, that's Moritarity, He has played the weakness of human nature, that's the main point of Moritarity's plan.

No, absolutely, Moriarty is the villain of the show and it all leads back to him. I just felt that there was a lot of emphasis on Sally going after Sherlock which painted her as the aggressor -- as the ungrateful bitch who is ignoring all the good that Sherlock has done -- whereas Anderson is all but entirely silent on the issue, and it's clear that Lestrade disagrees.

But I will be the first to admit that this is definitely something open to interpretation and if you get something different from how Sally acts in TRF than I do, that's perfectly valid. I still think that overall, the show treats it's women very poorly.

[tucker_liz]

Actually, the comments were made to Anderson, although Sally was within hearing range, no one else was except for John. And considering the guff she was doling out towards Sherlock, not to mention what she said to John, someone she didn't know and had never met before, she cannot expect not to have it thrown back at her. If you're gonna dish it out, you have to be able to take it.

I didn't like Sally based on this episode and she will never be a favorite of mine, but...she is a fully developed character with all the flaws of a real human being.

[sherlockholmes]

Molly Hooper

Once again, I think you're looking at this backwards. The writers wanted a pathologist to crush on Sherlock and date Jim, so of course she had to be a woman. You have to look at the reasons and the choices that the writers clearly made this character up. Because to say that they decided to make her female and then developed the entire Jim-tricks-Sherlock plot around that fact later seems a little bit short sighted.

Now let's talk about how abused Molly is, by the writers and by Sherlock

Sherlock goes through the entire first season well aware of her crush on him he isn't naive to it. He uses it against her to get what he wants, he manipulates her feelings, he ridicules her weight, and sends her running from the room upset((I think it's important, again, to mention that Sherlock doesn't make fun of men for anything but their intelligence. The mild exception to this might be Lestrade, because he makes reference to his wife's infidelity, but once again, that seems to be insults directed more at the unnamed wife than at

[sherlockholmes]

Just a quick comment about how Sherlock insults Molly's weight and but only Lestrade's intelligence.

You clearly see that Sherlock knows how to manipulate Molly into getting what he wants so you know that he understands what upsets a person. Molly Hopper is... infatuated, i suppose, with Sherlock so to hear that she isn't pretty from that person would obviously hurt her. Lestrade is a man who often struggle sin his field of work so the be called an idiot would hurt him.

Sherlok Holmes knows what people care about and uses it to hurt them.

And, Sherlock "abuses" pretty much everyone around him. Regardless of gender. You could pick out some for Anderson, just as much for Lestrade and more for John. Telling Lestrade that his wife was cheating on him in such a callous way was just as cruel as telling Molly she has gained weight.

And Lestrade would have jumped to Sherlock's aid just as quickly had he said it to him instead.

That wasn't as short as I'd hoped.

Hope you don't mind me butting into this conversation.

[blue_midnight]

Sherlok Holmes knows what people care about and uses it to hurt them.

I think you could argue that this is another example of sexism on the part of the writers though couldn't you?

Because they're saying that what upsets a woman is insults to her weight, her choice of sexual partners - and what upsets a man is insults to his intelligence or his ability to do his job.

Re: Hope you don't mind me butting into this conversation.

[sherlockholmes]

Actually yes, exactly this. Thank you for butting in. I didn't respond to the Anon because I didn't know how to word a comment that wasn't "so you're suggesting that women care more about their weight/appearance than they do about their intelligence....and you don't see the flaw in your own argument?"

Molly is a doctor, just like John, and he insults John's intelligence -- but Molly's weight/appearance/choice of boyfriends/ability to date -- how is that not an example of male/female inequality? Like, for serious.

[sophiap]

This is wonderful! I especially like the reminder that the Molly we see with Sherlock is very likely NOT the Molly her colleagues see on a regular basis. Now you have me craving fic where we get to see Molly acting all competent and professional when not in Sherlock's presence.

Also, thank you for your write-up about Sally. I do think she honestly believed she was doing the right thing by exposing Sherlock. Of course, there was probably a lot of dislike and resentment fueling that belief, but it was not the only or even major component. And YES, getting to be a sergeant in the Met's CID is no simple feat for anyone. Add on top of that the fact that Sally is a) female and b) a minority, that makes the climb even steeper. I don't think Sally is necessarily a nice person, but she's no villain.