Day 3

[jadarene]

Day 3 was Plagiarized by wickedwitch81 from Sabrina Jeffries' book "Married to the Viscount." We have hard evidence that ten pages were taken word for word, with only the characters names changed. We were alerted by liza1131, whom we can't thank enough for her vigilance. Shortly after discovering this plagiarism, lillithj informed us that wickedwitch81 also plagiarized her story "In the

Comments

[suzycat]

But they do steal another person's creations and original ideas and use them without permission.

So did Shakespeare. So, some argue, did JK Rowling. Rowling and I are a similar age and read very similar books. She's been "inspired by" E Nesbit et al to a massive degree, and acknowledges it as such (disclaimer: I am not a Potter fan and have barely looked at the books). "Original ideas"? There's no such thing. What if I had chosen to write a story about boarding school kids and magic? Would that have been stealing from Rowling? No - it would, however, have been me being influenced by the books I read as a child, which are the same books Rowling read as a child. One friend of mine raves endlessly about Rowling "stealing" from classical mythology.

The difference between that and fanfic is that fanfic takes existing and usually copyrighted characters and plays with them, for no commercial gain. Shakespeare pinched Romeo and Juliet and played with *them* and gained commercially, but of course there was no copyright on the traditional tale.
The reason Rowling and her publishers are so tight on copyright infringement is commercial, plain and simple.

[sillybridget]

Lest I ever forget that art is about making money and not about art for art's sake:( *sigh*

I know what you're talking about and not disagreeing. I think that about 98% of everyone who has replied to me has clearly missed my point. I'm not talking about disclaimers, plagiarism, dishonesty, etc. I'm really trying to (very badly I admit) zone in on the subject of permission.

I think it is depressing to think that ultimately author's are whoring their works and don't give a damn about their art unless there's $$$ involved.

I do AGREE with what you've written, I want you to understand that.

[suzycat]

Man, earlier you were so sure you were right about this issue and now I see you've deleted all your comments. You should consider going anon if you can't stand behind your own words.

[sillybridget]

I stand by what I said BUT:

1) People with no lives like to fuck with posts. Been there, done that, have the T shirt. I said what I wanted to say and I don't need it paraded out of context by those who are desperately bored and aren't contributing to the discussion.

2) No one asked for my credentials and I am not hauling them out. I know I am correct and I have been in the biz long enough to not feel intimidated by opinions which I know for a fact are erroneous, at least in part. I have paraphrased information given to me by published authors (of novels -- I myself am published but not in novel length fiction) and it has been discounted on LJ as wrong. When I take information given to me by experts in the craft and they are shot down as wrong like that, I find it's useless to press on.

3) I have noticed that my words are being very confused and misinterpreted, which made me think that I really did a lousy job of articulating my points. People are saying that I said fanfic automatically = plagiarism and I never once said that. I am now being "educated" by well meaning folks in the difference between fanfic and plagiarism, but the thing that is missing are the arguments comparing copyright infringement to fanfiction. THAT is where the meat is for me.

4) Anything I do will be seen as bad and wrong anyway, so why not do what benefits me? And that means taking down the posts that I think confused people.

Thanks for the advice, though. I see you practice what you preach;)

[vodkahol]

I am now being "educated" by well meaning folks in the difference between fanfic and plagiarism, but the thing that is missing are the arguments comparing copyright infringement to fanfiction. THAT is where the meat is for me.

But the problem is that you're the only person here who's interested in the fanfiction = copyright infringement debate right at the moment. This thread isn't about copyright infringement, it's about plagiarism, and when you try to introduce the argument that no fanauthors are innocent because we all infringe copyright, you come across as if you're attempting to defend wickedwitch81s actions by saying that all of us are guilty of something. Dude, I'm guilty of a lot of things. I once stole sweets from a shop when I was eight (or candy from a store, to Americanise it up). Does that automatically disqualify me from saying wickedwitch81 is guilty of theft? We're not working on the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" principle here.

Basically what I'm saying is, interesting debate, wrong place for it.

[sillybridget]

I will give you that, and respectfully quit the discussion. I came to the same conclusion early on (I said in bess's journal that I was poking in where I didn't belong -- I'm not even "in" the HP fandom,) but because things were happening with Wicked, I wanted to have my say. Looking back now, I think it was a waste of time.

No need to Americanise anything; I like learning about other countries and cultures and if I don't understand something you've said, I'm happy to research it. :)

Cheers,
Mena

[vodkahol]

I'm not even "in" the HP fandom

*laughs* Well that makes two of us then! Somehow I just can't resist sticking my nose in where it really doesn't belong.

No need to Americanise anything; I like learning about other countries and cultures and if I don't understand something you've said, I'm happy to research it. :)

Cool, and I hope you don't think I was trying to be condescending or anything; I just know that a lot of people aren't familiar with Britishisms, so I try to avoid confusion where possible. :)

Nice talking to you!

[sillybridget]

"I just can't resist sticking my nose in where it really doesn't belong."

I think that's what the purpose of the internet actually *is*, lol:) It's not just me or you, so siree. It's a quick and easy way to impose our opinions on people all over the world and waste time arguing. We all do it at one time or another. Real life does get kind of boring after a while :P

No, I didn't think you were being condescending at all. I know there are people who are not well versed in Britishisms (I myself am a huge devotee of BBCAmerica and scholar of the Victorian English era) and some are downright obnoxious about being faced with anything that's outside their comfort zone.

It is nice talking to you, too. Enjoy your new journal:)

[nc_kat2002]

I'm not even "in" the HP fandom

If you're whom I think you are, you used to be, Skye.

Most fanfic writers don't take a romance novel, and extract ten pages, word-for-word and use them without credit or as a quote. I know it's not a RL issue, per se, but it's certainly a moral issue and as such, is worth getting upset about.

When I was at uni, I slaved over my papers. Now I slave over my reports and evaluations. Now when I write a story, I slave over that. Taking someone's book and copying and pasting pages and not writing your own prose is a lazy way out and demeaning to those of us who work hard to write in our own voices.

[jadarene]

It could become a RL issue for any of the people who run archives where her fics are housed. They could get hit with a lawsuit that could drain them financially. Plagiarism hurts a lot of people.

[suzycat]

This is an interesting thread. I just thought you'd find it intriguing to know that the romance of "Romeo e Giulietta" is not, in fact, a traditional tale. It was a story written by a specific Italian writer (whose name I can't recall at the moment). Many librettos from Italian plays made their way through Europe in the hands of itinerant theater companies, and Shakespeare apparently liked several of them, 'cause he used them as bases for some of his work. So The Tragedie of Romeo and Juliet is, by our modern standards, very much plagiarism, as the Bard never did credit the Italian gentleman who wrote it. But since the concept of "intellectual property" did not then exist, he could get away with it.

[suzycat]

A-ha! I knew Romeo and Juliet wasn't just some random folk tale he'd picked up. Bad Shakespeare! No biscuit!