Question for the FList
This is just something I suddenly found myself thinking about (partly in relation to the kind of response I have a feeling I'm going to get for a fic I'm working on) - but I was wondering what you lot thought about it.
11 years ago, Babylon 5 had a lead character that was openly bisexual - who had an onscreen relationship with another woman. Something which when I mentioned to da last night, he said never really had a huge deal made out of it (unlike when the girl kiss happened in Buffy *mock gasp*).
BUT 11 years on, has TV really moved on, which in this case I mean as 'how many shows can you think of that have openly bisexual/gay characters' as a part of an ensemble cast?
In saying this, I'm also thinking more of the shows which AREN'T all about gay characters (I know the L Word and Queer as Folk exist and *yay* for them existing) because in the sense of moving forward, is having shows that are JUST about gay people actually progress. Yes it means that they're there on TV and not being ignored or denied anymore, but the fact that the shows focuses solely on that fact and people go on about the fact they're about gay people, rather than the actual content of the show beyond that fact, makes it progress, but also a sign of people's opinions on such things.
Torchwood, is on the top of the list I think of - but as some of the articles I've seen about it, especially the American ones, seem to think that the fact that Jack's omni sexual and is in a relationship with one of the other male characters - detracts from the shows quality.
Buffy is another of the shows I watch to have had a gay character (though, after that initial kiss no where near as much was made of it as there still is with Torchwood, because two boys together is TOTALLY different than two girls, you know *rolls eyes*)
Dark Angel would be my favourite of the lot though - Original Cindy was just about in the same league as the previously mentioned B5 character. And not much was made of it - over here at least, or that I've seen - but much of that is probably because she wasn't the lead *g*.
Otherwise - many of the 'soap' like shows seem to have at least one gay character (or pair ala desperate housewives) but it half seems like we're getting 'token gays' along with our 'token people of colour' these days.
There are also the many issues people have with the gender balance of shows as well, which I agree with, but more on how the women who are present are portrayed, rather than how many of them there are.
The numbers of shows without any of these issues is few and far between - some of my favourite shows are FULL of skeevy issues regarding one or the other of these factors. But is it going to change any time soon? Or is it just going to get worse as a result of people talking about the issues?
I don't mind shows that don't have a gay character, or only have one woman, or are mostly white - as long as there is a clear awareness of that fact and there's reasons shown as to WHY that is the case (for example, if your cast is just one family - with all friends etc being recurring - then it seems fair if they're all white OR are all people of colour.) - if it means we aren't getting a token girl, token person of colour and token gay (or, heaven forbid, a token fulfills all the above criteria) thrown in because they're scared of being called on not having them.
So - enough from me - what do you all think? Can you think of shows I haven't listed? Do you think I'm wrong?
Talk to me peeps :) I don't bite.
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11 years ago, Babylon 5 had a lead character that was openly bisexual - who had an onscreen relationship with another woman. Something which when I mentioned to da last night, he said never really had a huge deal made out of it (unlike when the girl kiss happened in Buffy *mock gasp*).
BUT 11 years on, has TV really moved on, which in this case I mean as 'how many shows can you think of that have openly bisexual/gay characters' as a part of an ensemble cast?
In saying this, I'm also thinking more of the shows which AREN'T all about gay characters (I know the L Word and Queer as Folk exist and *yay* for them existing) because in the sense of moving forward, is having shows that are JUST about gay people actually progress. Yes it means that they're there on TV and not being ignored or denied anymore, but the fact that the shows focuses solely on that fact and people go on about the fact they're about gay people, rather than the actual content of the show beyond that fact, makes it progress, but also a sign of people's opinions on such things.
Torchwood, is on the top of the list I think of - but as some of the articles I've seen about it, especially the American ones, seem to think that the fact that Jack's omni sexual and is in a relationship with one of the other male characters - detracts from the shows quality.
Buffy is another of the shows I watch to have had a gay character (though, after that initial kiss no where near as much was made of it as there still is with Torchwood, because two boys together is TOTALLY different than two girls, you know *rolls eyes*)
Dark Angel would be my favourite of the lot though - Original Cindy was just about in the same league as the previously mentioned B5 character. And not much was made of it - over here at least, or that I've seen - but much of that is probably because she wasn't the lead *g*.
Otherwise - many of the 'soap' like shows seem to have at least one gay character (or pair ala desperate housewives) but it half seems like we're getting 'token gays' along with our 'token people of colour' these days.
There are also the many issues people have with the gender balance of shows as well, which I agree with, but more on how the women who are present are portrayed, rather than how many of them there are.
The numbers of shows without any of these issues is few and far between - some of my favourite shows are FULL of skeevy issues regarding one or the other of these factors. But is it going to change any time soon? Or is it just going to get worse as a result of people talking about the issues?
I don't mind shows that don't have a gay character, or only have one woman, or are mostly white - as long as there is a clear awareness of that fact and there's reasons shown as to WHY that is the case (for example, if your cast is just one family - with all friends etc being recurring - then it seems fair if they're all white OR are all people of colour.) - if it means we aren't getting a token girl, token person of colour and token gay (or, heaven forbid, a token fulfills all the above criteria) thrown in because they're scared of being called on not having them.
So - enough from me - what do you all think? Can you think of shows I haven't listed? Do you think I'm wrong?
Talk to me peeps :) I don't bite.
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