The idea of a "post-Ciara era" makes me smile a lot.
James Joyce is the only one that comes to mind, and maybe some rappers, but there's a breed of narcissist artist who can keep a "great statement" pure by thinking it's the word of God.
But it seems true also, how bands peak and fade because success makes them self-conscious -- not the nervous self-conscious, but the kind where you overthink and work for an audience. I am a stickler for the idea that the best stuff wasn't made for an audience.
Got a rant saved on the other computer, tries to use Ratatouille to explain why genre music is less artistic than formless music. I actually did write it the same night I promised to.
I read "post-Ciara" properly the first time around and only caught the "sense that she should die" after your comment. Which is now really really funny in an uncomfortable way.
And why can't she be like punk or WWII? I mean, clearly I'm using her as a stand-in for the conglomeration of Lil Jon, crunk('n'b), and certain production trends that she incorporates but doesn't originate, but the idea still stands.
The other kind of post-[singer] era is certainly another interesting idea though. Note Aaliyah and how her death both opened up space for a variety of imitators and also broadened sonic influence of Timbaland and her template.
To be fair, singles aside, Ciara hasn't done enough mind-blowing stuff yet in my eyes to be worthy of a "post-" but the shoe fits, in this case.
Sidenote: in indie-ist news, I'm really enjoying the new Wolf Parade, which has kind of given me an entry point into Apologies to the Queen Mary which never quite clicked with me. It's more cohesive, less ragged (where I often prefer more ragged) but works
( ... )
Technically anything CAN be like punk or the War, but probably not many people would say her legacy (or the legacy of crunk and B) is on the same scale. Are you trying to trick me into saying something elitist?
It takes me weeks to "go through" an album so I have a giant backlog. Wolf Parade is awesome, Frog Eyes I don't go for, haven't heard the new one. Fire in the Hole is the kind of thing I might shout when home alone.
How do you know Islands? (Is it wrong to ask that?)
RE: Ciara No tricks here. I wasn't trying to imply that it was on the same scale. It's not. It was just a facile way to try and convey influence. Shorthand for "oh. this album seems to use this style of production as a jump off point, maybe, but is a fuller sound and abandons the minimalist perspective. Is it actually doing this, or is there another precursor/influence/music scene whose impact I am missing here?" not dogmatic, actually exploring. I only really listen to four or five Ciara tracks anyway, although I should give an album a chance
( ... )
Re: biting sarcastic and hilariousweasel_seekerMay 11 2008, 12:25:37 UTC
Maybe sarcastic isn't the right word. It's more that the "self-important" signifiers, when they're there, sound so overblown that musically they don't hit as "epic" but as a sense of over-the-top-ness, a joke being shared with the listener. They make me want to sing along and laugh and be a rock star.
Which is great because they're songs about tracking Yetis in the NWT and being stabbed to death by a house intruder or being fucked over by your record label or being pissed off at old band members for leaving the band (even though you're not actually pissed off at them at all). I can't explain it. There's a real joy to the music.
correction: I'm not too cynical to be moved by their music and the experience of it, but I fail to see how knowing that Win and Regine's grandparents died while making the album or that Dizzee made all of his beats in his bedroom on his computer or that The Sunset Tree is about Darnelle's relationship with his abusive step-father affects my experience of the music per se in a fundamentally positive way
ever wonder why hey there delilah is so awesome?brendan62442May 11 2008, 03:32:05 UTC
There are a couple of superficial things I use as signs I can find for a "labour of love". If the work has a personal nature, if was produced independently, if the artist was not previously successful, or if the artist has a persona as being unhappy -- when these are true, it seems more likely that the artist would have invested a lot of effort into the thing
( ... )
Re: ever wonder why hey there delilah is so awesome?weasel_seekerMay 11 2008, 12:45:07 UTC
Your distinction between critics and artists and what you label as hobbyists is interesting, because you can wear all three hats at once. What makes someone a critic vs. a hobbyist? Do you mean a professional critic? I don't see why someone has more weight because they get paid to do it. Is it technical knowledge? I play four? five? instruments. I'm not in a band right now, but I have been sporadically in the past. I jam with friends on a semi-regular basis. I also, as a result of 14 odd years of classical training know enough about theory and harmony and structure to catch nuances. The categories you're setting up seem strange.
There are a couple of superficial things I use as signs I can find for a "labour of love". If the work has a personal nature, if was produced independently, if the artist was not previously successful, or if the artist has a persona as being unhappy -- when these are true, it seems more likely that the artist would have invested a lot of effort into the thing.I won't argue the personal nature comment
( ... )
Re: ever wonder why hey there delilah is so awesome?weasel_seekerMay 11 2008, 12:51:57 UTC
Equally so anyone who can read Gaiman's Sandman or Moore's Watchmen and not see something interesting and intelligent and, yes, literary, there is looking with blinders on.
And the cult of Nick Drake, Elliott Smith and Jeff Buckley is both attractive and pleasant sounding but also creepy and hollow and less about the music and more about our weird societal obsession with celebrities/musicians and hero worship. Death = canonization. I have a whole other rant I'll save for later about how uncomfortable I am with the suicidal artist = truer artist trope.
Art doesn't become retroactively better because someone killed themselves, but our perception of it does. Tragically flaming out young is all well and good because WE don't have to do it, and we can die vicariously through them. Cobain, Drake, Smith, Buckley, Sylvia Plath, Jim Morrison, Virginia Woolf, etc. etc. Male musicians and female authors, oddly. Anyway, that's another conversation for another post.
James Joyce is the only one that comes to mind, and maybe some rappers, but there's a breed of narcissist artist who can keep a "great statement" pure by thinking it's the word of God.
But it seems true also, how bands peak and fade because success makes them self-conscious -- not the nervous self-conscious, but the kind where you overthink and work for an audience. I am a stickler for the idea that the best stuff wasn't made for an audience.
Got a rant saved on the other computer, tries to use Ratatouille to explain why genre music is less artistic than formless music. I actually did write it the same night I promised to.
Reply
(It makes me smile in both an obnoxious way and a happy way.)
Reply
And why can't she be like punk or WWII? I mean, clearly I'm using her as a stand-in for the conglomeration of Lil Jon, crunk('n'b), and certain production trends that she incorporates but doesn't originate, but the idea still stands.
The other kind of post-[singer] era is certainly another interesting idea though. Note Aaliyah and how her death both opened up space for a variety of imitators and also broadened sonic influence of Timbaland and her template.
To be fair, singles aside, Ciara hasn't done enough mind-blowing stuff yet in my eyes to be worthy of a "post-" but the shoe fits, in this case.
Sidenote: in indie-ist news, I'm really enjoying the new Wolf Parade, which has kind of given me an entry point into Apologies to the Queen Mary which never quite clicked with me. It's more cohesive, less ragged (where I often prefer more ragged) but works ( ... )
Reply
Reply
It takes me weeks to "go through" an album so I have a giant backlog. Wolf Parade is awesome, Frog Eyes I don't go for, haven't heard the new one. Fire in the Hole is the kind of thing I might shout when home alone.
How do you know Islands?
(Is it wrong to ask that?)
Reply
Reply
Reply
Which is great because they're songs about tracking Yetis in the NWT and being stabbed to death by a house intruder or being fucked over by your record label or being pissed off at old band members for leaving the band (even though you're not actually pissed off at them at all). I can't explain it. There's a real joy to the music.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
There are a couple of superficial things I use as signs I can find for a "labour of love". If the work has a personal nature, if was produced independently, if the artist was not previously successful, or if the artist has a persona as being unhappy -- when these are true, it seems more likely that the artist would have invested a lot of effort into the thing.I won't argue the personal nature comment ( ... )
Reply
And the cult of Nick Drake, Elliott Smith and Jeff Buckley is both attractive and pleasant sounding but also creepy and hollow and less about the music and more about our weird societal obsession with celebrities/musicians and hero worship. Death = canonization. I have a whole other rant I'll save for later about how uncomfortable I am with the suicidal artist = truer artist trope.
Art doesn't become retroactively better because someone killed themselves, but our perception of it does. Tragically flaming out young is all well and good because WE don't have to do it, and we can die vicariously through them. Cobain, Drake, Smith, Buckley, Sylvia Plath, Jim Morrison, Virginia Woolf, etc. etc. Male musicians and female authors, oddly. Anyway, that's another conversation for another post.
Reply
Leave a comment