wcg

The military historian's frustration

Nov 25, 2010 14:42

Chances are, you've already read today's vignette. If not, go look at it so you'll understand what I'm talking about ( Read more... )

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lostwanderfound November 25 2010, 23:28:39 UTC
MacKenzie was one of the good guys, and what he had to do at the Powder River Cheyenne village galled him

But he didn't "have" to do it; he chose to do it.

The fact that choosing not to do it would have had unpleasant personal consequences (and, in the long run, probably wouldn't have prevented the occurence of something equivalent to the Powder River Raid) doesn't negate MacKenzie's free will and responsibility.

even if he were to resign his commission, it would only mean that some other cavalry officer would be given his 4th Cavalry to do Sheridan's bidding

But, unfortunately, the exact same logic applies to [insert Godwinising example of choice here, or any of an infinite supply of similar situations through history].

And, although the 4th would not have followed him, he always had the option of personally choosing to fight against the repeatedly treaty-breaking and arguably genocidal government of the 19th century United States. That's not an easy choice, and it probably would not have resulted in any significant improvement ( ... )

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wcg November 26 2010, 02:54:35 UTC
As a commissioned officer who'd sworn to obey the orders of those appointed over him, he'd have considered that to be a breach of his own integrity. He preferred to remain in command, and prosecute the plains wars in a style that limited the loss of human life while denying the Indians the means to exist off the reservation.

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browngirl November 26 2010, 00:04:18 UTC
I could absolutely tell (from how you wrote it and because I know you) that you're frustrated for his sake. I could argue about the meanings of "had to" and "choice" -- I don't disagree with lostwanderfound -- but I know you're in a much better position to evaluate his choices and obligations than I could be.

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wcg November 26 2010, 03:01:41 UTC
As I just said above, MacKenzie was a commissioned officer who'd sworn to obey the orders of those appointed over him. His own integrity required him to carry out his orders to the best of his ability. I admire him for doing so with minimal loss of human life. There were certainly cavalry commanders (Custer, for example) who encouraged their troopers to kill every Indian they could. MacKenzie wasn't that kind of cavalry commander.

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tsjafo November 26 2010, 01:30:40 UTC
"...MacKenzie concentrated his efforts on destroying the lodges and capturing the horses rather than encouraging his troops to wholesale slaughter."

He chose to carry out his orders in a manner that would accomplish the mission without committing genocide. Another officer might have shared Sheridan's opinions and gone for a high kill count instead. Small comfort though it was for the Indians.

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wcg November 26 2010, 03:02:26 UTC
Exactly.

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trinker November 26 2010, 04:09:18 UTC
I suppose if one has to deal with atrocities, best they're conducted by people with compassion and mercy.

I do wonder, in some alternate reality, what would have happened if MacKenzie and others had taken up arms *for* the Cheyenne.

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wcg November 26 2010, 17:06:29 UTC
If MacKenzie had tried that he'd have been relieved of his command and court-martialed, assuming his regimental executive officer hadn't just shot him on the spot. If he'd somehow managed to convince his officers to go in with him, most of his troopers would have deserted rather than fight alongside the Indians.

Even if he'd been able by force of personality to convince a significant number of his officers and troopers to go with him, he'd have soon run out of supplies and re-mounts.

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trinker November 26 2010, 18:54:07 UTC
Obviously, it wasn't possible to do this from within the U.S. military structure. Not what I was suggesting.

I'm ... I don't know how to talk about this without resorting to inflammatory language. As you know, some armies have used rape as a tactic. This discussion strikes me as on the order of, "he was a *considerate* rapist..."

It does say something that he bucked the trend as much as he did. Alone, it was possibly as much as he could do. How many more were minded like him, but lacked the essential something to do as much as he did? I'm not fond of the lone saint theory of history...I'd much rather believe that many individuals didn't step forward to make effective countermeasures to change the status quo.

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rickvs November 26 2010, 15:37:18 UTC
Out of curiosity, do you have an opinion how much notice might have been taken if MacKenzie had resigned in protest ...and more than one of his successors had done the same? In that circumstance, it sounds like those upstream from Sheridan likely shared Sheridan's opinions more than MacKenzie's, so MacKenzie appears to have done the right thing, for some definitions of the right thing :/

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wcg November 26 2010, 16:57:16 UTC
If MacKenzie had resigned in protest, people back east in Washington would have said he'd "gone native." The Army had an institutional distrust of westerners (not that MacKenzie was a westerner, he was from New England) for just this reason -- they were considered too likely to be sympathetic to the natives. This in spite of the fact that President Grant was himself a westerner and sympathetic to Indian issues ( ... )

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rickvs November 26 2010, 22:25:15 UTC
Life in the U.S. today seems like "one of those dreams were the bad guys are getting ahead no matter what you do."

Sean

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