On KOTH Pairings

Dec 23, 2011 12:02

I've been thinking about Scrabble pairings recently, and how best to do them. Here are some initial thoughts ( Read more... )

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spherulitic December 23 2011, 23:09:05 UTC
It would disadvantage a person in 3rd place, and make it harder for them to control their own destiny, if 1 and 2 are always playing each other.

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wantonhalo December 24 2011, 00:55:23 UTC
Well, Jesse's idea of least repeats within similar records should avoid this for the most part. If 1 and 2 are significantly ahead of the field though, this situation is still feasible: other players had a chance to catch them earlier in the tournament. Plus, if they are in such a situation, they will beat up on each other and lower-ranked players have a chance to catch up.

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spherulitic December 24 2011, 01:02:18 UTC
What you describe isn't that different from Swiss pairings or Chew pairings.

Early in the tournament, wouldn't it be better to treat all players with the same record as equals and pair them in a large group (rather than rating them strictly by spread as in a KOTH), and then towards the end of the tournament make it gradually more like a strict KOTH?

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wantonhalo December 24 2011, 03:14:58 UTC
Treating all players with the same record as equals is "Jesse's idea" as aforementioned. Should we even have a strict KOTH until the last round? How much of a role do we want spread to play in the tournament at all?

Chew pairings and Swiss pairings seem okay, but I think they could do with fewer repeats, at least for people who are in contention. They also seem to give way too many people too much of a chance near the end of the tournament. I also agree with Marlon that the 500 rule is silly.

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Spread gijoel666 December 24 2011, 06:50:30 UTC
Noah asked: "How much of a role do we want spread to play in the tournament at all ( ... )

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Re: Spread cuzzakenji December 24 2011, 07:39:35 UTC
Marlon don't misunderstand SHIT about spread. THIS argument is OLDER than da person u addressin (Noah). iss OUTDATED THEORY dat spread is generated by superior play.

not only do substance determine spread, but STYLE do as well. if u do dumb shit (like bungee jumpin) n get away wif it cuz u playin another muthafucka who like dat shit 2--good 4 yall. whydafuck u think i wanted 2 play matchstyle SO bad???? THAT is WHY i would have DOMINATED--u KEEP stickin yo chin out u GONNA get hit EVENTUALLY. n 2 stick yo chin out ON a muhfucka dat a knock u dafuck OUT??????

TEQUILA!!!!! (PeeWee's Big Adventure was on earlier).

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Re: Spread wantonhalo December 25 2011, 04:10:32 UTC
I have to agree with Marlon's argument on spread here--it doesn't always reward good behavior. In fact, one of Joel's points about rewarding those extra points is null. As you pointed out yourself, this ability is it's own reward:

"You don't get enough practice to be ready and capable to find that extra point or few when it is crucial to do so."

That being said, without a matchplay system, is there really a good way to rank people outside of spread?

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Re: Spread gijoel666 December 25 2011, 07:54:38 UTC
That ability only gets to be its own reward if we have a system of ranking performances within individual tourneys that incentivizes developing that ability.

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Re: Spread cuzzakenji December 25 2011, 09:09:37 UTC
THAT is NOT an ABILITY. WHAT u win by is PRIMARILY determined by WHAT u AND opp DRAW (INfuckinSANE to ARGUE otherwise). YES, YOUR proficiency CAN be SEEN (when fuckin OBSERVED) in HIGH spread, but it aint a HAZARDOUS GUESS to say ERROR and POOR (RAG GED DEE ASSED) play of BOTH players contributes as much or MORE than does PURE SKILL to high spread.

having such a cockeyed view of spread DISTORTS (sumpn fuckin FIERCE) da REALITY (as IMpercption DUZZ) dat SKILL is MORE REFLECTED in CLOSER games. da world aint flat (n MOST people ALWAYS KNEW it wuzzint)...

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Re: Spread wantonhalo December 25 2011, 19:10:03 UTC
This just isn't true. If spread weren't a factor, people would still try to develop the ability to squeeze out that extra point in close endgames, say. Top Scrabble players want to get every edge they can, so they would probably still be good at that sort of thing. For example, I try to find the best endgame in all my live games, to practice for games were this extra effort counts and because it is fun...and a lot of these games don't count for spread. Marlon's also right that playing for spread often rewards highly aggressive behavior like playing a too highly equity-based strategy.

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Re: Spread gijoel666 December 25 2011, 20:55:31 UTC
Would you say Nigel Richards plays a too highly equity-based strategy? He plays the same style I do, except that he knows more and finds more. Yet, (not to brag but you can look it up), Nigel and I match up pretty closely when we play head to head. Marlon does not match up closely with me or most other players who are rated higher than him and win a higher percentage of tourneys. He doesn't because his wait-to- counterpunch instead of fire-when-your-gun-is-already-loaded strategy is doomed to fail in an average luck environment. Go see who owns Marlon ( ... )

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Re: Spread cuzzakenji December 25 2011, 22:24:52 UTC
WHY (n i'm LAFFIN as i type) izz u attackin ME CUZ u wrong about spread???????????????

i got a TERRIBLE record vs Frank Tangredi--HOWdafuck DAT happen. n U of ALL people aint got SHIT 2 say about whatdafuck happen when WE play!!!!!!! 2 of da games is ANNOTATED n iss CERTAINLY been 5 or 6 more JUSS LIKE dat--shit da last time we played, a SINGLE tile draw for u completely changed da game on da 3rd or 4th play of da game!!! if i wuzzint skurred i would crush yo puny lil skull, i WOULD punch u inna mouf CUZ u izz TRIPPIN!!!!! i aint gonna address ALL da dumb shit u say (izz u MAD cuz i called u a SMUG NERD??????? u IZZ SMUG n c'mon now, SERIOUSLY...), but I don't EXPECT to LOSE to NO muthafuckin BODY!!!!!!! RUSTY as i am NOW, i WOULD STILL sit down n EXPECT 2 beat YOU in a match CUZ i'm BETTER than YOU. ALL i would want izz somebody 2 draw tiles 4 me.

forgive me, Noah--old ass men wif an old ass argument...

if i had nevva set foot in tourney land, da COCKEYED view would still exist n STILL be fuckin COCKEYED.

-

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Re: Spread wantonhalo December 26 2011, 00:07:56 UTC
"WHY (n i'm LAFFIN as i type) izz u attackin ME CUZ u wrong about spread???????????????"

Whether or not Joel is right about Marlon's play, this is essentially what I thought when I read Joel's post.

"forgive me, Noah--old ass men wif an old ass argument..."

No problem...it is funny to watch :).

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Re: Spread wallydraigle December 26 2011, 01:12:12 UTC
Watching other people try to "educate" Noah on his LJ is completely hilarious, just in general.

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Re: Spread gijoel666 December 26 2011, 00:11:56 UTC
I'm not attacking you, Marlon. I'm pointing out for the benefit of young players who are on their way to the top that they should not be sidetracked by the opinion of someone whose philosophy on the game is as upside down as yours. If you knew anything about how to play this game, you might have some credentials to back up your ridiculous claim, yelled at everyone in earshot for the last 15 years, that you are better than me or anyone else ranked above you. You've had a long time to prove it, and gotten nowhere. So instead, you disrespect the game and its best players by telling us we need to change tourney formats in order to demonstrate that you've been better than us all along. Nonsense, if you can't succeed at the game as you found it, that's not the game's fault, and it's not Joe Edley's or my fault, it's *only* *your* fault ( ... )

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Re: Spread cuzzakenji December 26 2011, 01:19:39 UTC
wow, you ARE CRAZY and on da STUPID side. NOBODY REALLY INTELLIGENT USE faulty mechanisms, nevva mind SWEAR by em ( ... )

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