[things] i have to share | "well, you still make sense to me..."

[waltzmatildah]

catteo, this post is pretty much totally for you, and is intended to serve two purposes. One of them is introduce you to some new music, given your recent Triple J-lessness lament. The other is... CAN YOU GUESS? Let's see if you can guess...

Comments

[waltzmatildah]

Okay, first, you thought it was played for the LOLs? Wow. This is SO incredibly NOT my reaction to it. Admittedly, I have nothing to do with fandom, so I had no idea that was the prevailing opinion, but yikes. I did NOT get a comedy vibe from that scene, neither on my first viewing, nor on my recent re-watch.

Secondly, I also didn't get the vibe that Aynsley was being portrayed as the vapid housewife. Not at all. If anything, I think CHAD had that role. And I freaking loved Aynsley/Chad from the moment they appeared. And Aynsley and Chad as individual characters.

As for why I loved the scene (and obviously what I'm about to say is heavily rooted in my two points above); that was because I loved what it told us about Alison. Her ruthlessness. The glimpse it gave us into what was to come/what she could be capable of given the right circumstances. I was utterly shocked by the scene when it aired (and on my rewatch). I found it uncomfortable and intense. Whether it was passive murder or not (is that even a thing?), I have no idea, nor do I particularly care. For me it was awful and beautiful and shocking and akin to the split second scene in Fargo where Lester smashed Pearl in the forehead with the hammer. Like, completely out of the blue but also, not really out of the blue at all.

So yeah, my love of the scene is pretty much totally grounded in the fact that I disagree wholeheartedly with your interpretation of the scene (and Aynsley as a character). Which is obviously totally fine! And one of the things I love about having an f-list to chat these things out with!!

[inglevine]

I think there's a difference between loving that moment and it's place within the overall story and Allison's character development specifically, and loving Allison for what she did. And I read your comments as the later, I could have misinterpreted.

For example, you know I love, love, love Skyler. And her less heroic and more human qualities are part of that. I love her complexity and how much she makes sense and how I can understand her as a human being. But the moment where she suggests that Walt kill Jesse doesn't make me love her more. It might make me appreciate the complexity the writers gave her, but it doesn't make me feel affectionate toward Skyler.

So, while I can see what Allison did as definitely interesting as far a her character going in a new direction, I did loathe her as a character during that moment. I don't see that kind of ruthlessness as anything to admire or love. It just chilled me. And I didn't read the scene or the aftermath as taking it seriously enough. Allison was a little tearful and confused, but that was about her, not Aynsley.

Aynsley had young children. So did Allison. The fact that Allison was willing to let her die was incredibly brutal and upsetting to me. And the mess left behind in Aynsley's life wasn't dealt with at all. There was no scene in which Allison saw her kids crying, at least no in my memory. I kind of blanked out a bit after that scene.

And, yeah, we definitely disagree as to how the incident was coloured by the mise en cine at that point. I saw Aynsley's husband as more of a dipshit cheater and I did see Aynsley as portrayed as a silly suburbanite housewife. I felt that Allison's whole world in the suburbs was meant to be seen as shallow and humorous and Aynsley as the person who represented that. I don't actually have a problem with the community being portrayed as it was. I did find that apt and funny. But I don't think Aynsley deserved to die for what she was.

Fyi--passive murder, in my mind, is killing someone through inactivity. What Walt did to Jane. Although, honestly, I had some twisted sympathy for Walt during that moment as I thought he was doing it partially for Jesse, and I had none for Allison. I was just screaming at her to what the hell, flip the fucking switch already.

I think your comparison to that moment in Fargo is a good one, although I found the tone of the two scenes very different.

[waltzmatildah]

Ahhh, okay. I need to clarify. I always forget that the way I watch television is (I think) quite unusual, and it's not until discussions like this one that I'm reminded of the differences...

Firstly though, my opinion of the scene/characterisation of the characters involved obviously remains the same.

However, back to my 'love' of Alison and how her involvement in Aynsley's death adds to that... It all ties in to this: I think there's a difference between loving that moment and it's place within the overall story and Allison's character development specifically, and loving Allison for what she did. And I read your comments as the later, I could have misinterpreted.

I never, never, never, never see characters as human beings. When I say 'I love Alison' what I mean is, 'I love this piece of art', because that's what characters are to me. They are as externally created as a sculpture or a painting, if that makes sense. So I am ALWAYS coming to character discussions from your first point of view. And I'm pretty sure that's unusual? Like, when I say I freaking LOVE Walter White (which I do!! x 19834958798%!!!), what I mean is, I love this piece of art that Vince Gilligan and Bryan Cranston crafted. I never mean I love that he, Walter White, murdered people and treated Jesse like crap and was egotistical and the like. I never mean I love him as a human being. Because, to me, he's not? He's a piece of art.

Does this even make sense?! Haha!!

Also: There was no scene in which Allison saw her kids crying, at least no in my memory. I don't think there needed to be? Like, Orphan Black isn't about Aynsley's kids? I mean, it's not even about Aynsley, really. And given there are ten episodes per season, and a cast of thousands as it is, devoting time to scenes that wouldn't actually add up to much is (imo, of course) a waste of precious resources. I think the vast majority of the first half of season two was Alison reacting to Aynsley's death and her role in it and what that meant for her/about her. Adding a scene were Alison watched Aynsley's kids cry? That'd do nothing for me whatsoever... Though I definitely get that you disagree and that it's something you'd have appreciated. Absolutely fair enough.

Re. the Fargo comparison. What I meant there was that my reaction to the scene was similar to the reaction I had when I watched Lester hit Pearl. I'm definitely not saying the scenes themselves are similar, just that my reaction to both was, well, pretty much identical.

Finally: another clarification! Haha. But I don't think Aynsley deserved to die for what she was. Let's just be clear. I NEVER said that!!!

[inglevine]

Ah, yes, I totally get what you mean about seeing a character as a piece of art. I definitely do that too. This is why I can love Kate and Peter in Teen Wolf, while despising them at the same time. They entertain me in a way I really enjoy, at least they did in the first season, but I don't feel love for them.

On the other hand, if I'm really into a piece of art I my suspension of disbelief will be suspended enough that I do feel actual emotions towards the characters as well. I loved Jesse. Like with my heart. If he'd been killed it wouldn't have mattered how perfect it was for the story or his arc or whatever, I'd have been destroyed. Same goes for Harry in HP. And I feel genuine affection toward Skyler.

In Orphan Black, I love Sarah and Cosima, but I can't love Allison because of what she did re Aynsley. I will have to watch season two, of course, to get a wider view of her character and I could easily change my mind.

I wanted to see her kids cry (god, that sounds bad) because in order to feel that the show was taking what she did seriously I needed to see that Allison understood the full consequences of her action. I felt like the show treated that as irrelevant, though.

"But I don't think Aynsley deserved to die for what she was." -- You didn't. But I felt like the show did. Or not that she deserved to die for what she was, but that her death was not all that big a deal because of who she was.

[waltzmatildah]

On the other hand, if I'm really into a piece of art I my suspension of disbelief will be suspended enough that I do feel actual emotions towards the characters as well. I can pretty much never suspend disbelief. And I know this drives some of my closest LJ buddies kinda crazy because I'm always, "but... but... but... no!!"

I loved Jesse. Like with my heart. If he'd been killed it wouldn't have mattered how perfect it was for the story or his arc or whatever, I'd have been destroyed. Not me. I absolutely freaking loved the piece of the puzzle that Jesse was. I loved the way Aaron played him. I loved the chemistry that existed (on and off-screen) between him and Bryan, but there are absolutely circumstances where would have enjoyed Jesse's death. I THINK THIS MAKES ME SUPER WEIRD BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE SO... eeeek!!

I will have to watch season two, of course, to get a wider view of her character and I could easily change my mind. Oh, hang on, wait. You haven't seen season two? Like, ANY of season two? If I remember correctly, there are maybe two significant Alison scenes in season one post Aynsley's death. Did you want the show to deal with the fall out in one of those? I'm a little confused. I thought you must have watched season two and not been happy with it due to the vehemence of your opinion (at least, as I read it, which is not always indicative of ~actual vehemence, I will grant that). The vast majority of Alison's season two storyline focuses on the repercussions of Aynsley's death and Alison's role in it. I mean, Aynsley even gets a funeral. And we see her friends reacting to her death.

because in order to feel that the show was taking what she did seriously I needed to see that Allison understood the full consequences of her action. Again, I'm not sure when you wanted this to happen given how close to the end of the season it all actually went down (and amid Sarah stabbing Helena and Amelia being killed and Cosima deciphering the barcodes). Alison understanding the full consequences of her actions was basically the entirety of her first-half-of-season-two arc (and there were mentions of it in later episodes also). Which makes much more sense, in my opinion, than trying to jam it into the last portion of the season one finale.

[inglevine]

That was me, btw. I logged out without realising somehow.