Washing before dinner; more from yesterday

[vvalkyri]

From today's Washington Post,an article that's technically about lunch, but still.

I like the idea of sinks in restaurant seating areas. It's apparently prevalent in India.In other news, yesterday's post about Good Guys influencing More Guys continues to eat my brain; there are a couple of followups that I've got bookmarked for later: On

Comments

[cz_unit]

Oh brother, another "where the fuck are you, nice boys!"

I used to get a rise out of this one. These days, it's like a siren call saying "I'm a complete idiot".

Yeah yeah, all men are rapists, ya da ya da ya. What an attention whore.

CZ

[vvalkyri]

Did you follow the links? That's actually not what she seemed to be saying

[cz_unit]

Yes, I did.

Unfortunately remember my situation: Narcissist who has dated paranoids. I smell this sort of thing out far, and I say WELL the hell away from them. Not because I am a nice guy or not, but because I know trying to negotiate, deal with, or engage a paranoid is a recipe for disaster. It doesn't work, it so doesn't work. It's like trying to talk to an endless series of mirrors, reflections on reflections.

So BTDT.

No, I as a "good guy" will not go around trumpeting that to make some paranoid more happy. I will simply do what I do, and let that speak for itself. If you can't hear it, well then that's that.

I'm sure there are women who don't have men in their life that they can trust. That's sad, but why is that? Why would anyone possibly trust me based on what I say? That goes into the "trust isn't earned" rant which is another one for another day.

Oddly enough I don't post because I do the right thing. I post because I do what I do. It just... is.

CZ

[vvalkyri]

Agh. I'm not managing to get it across. Something about having read entirely too many of the comments there.

Perhaps I misread you, but I see you as a guy who would intercede, or tell someone else he's being a dick, or tell a group they're being asses.

Some of the discussion did go toward media representation of what is good and normal, but some of it also went toward the fact that there are indeed a whole lot of Good Guys out there.

Gah. Work I need to do, and I'm not managing. :sigh:

[cz_unit]

Well of course I would. But that's not the same as going around and tooting my little horn for someone. What is, is.

Sorry, these posts are great for getting 600 comments in one's journal and 5 minutes on facebook's cover or something. Not my cup of tea.

CZ

[cz_unit]

You know, I just realized why this pisses me off so much.

What we're hearing is the product of the 80's and 90's over-parenting of girls. Because after all we know there are satanists in the day care and mean, mean men everywhere raping them all.

So this is what we get: A generation of women who are so afraid that they want men to say to them "don't worry, I won't rape you" on a bus.

I have two girls. Fuck that noise: I'm teaching Tara and Bri to be independent. To go where they want to go, explore that dark cave, and god damnit if a boyfriend or anyone tries to rape them to rip their fucking balls off.

I want them to look at such a "good man" on a bus and say "I don't need your paternal fake-masculine bullshit. And if you try to rape me I will rip your balls off. Hi! What's your name!"

That's why I am so upset. Makes sense now.

CZ

[hammercock]

And you have a son, whom I assume you want to grow up not to have other people's daughters look at on the bus or in the street and have to wonder whether they can trust him. Because this is the flip side of the coin: It's not enough to teach daughters to be independent and strong; we also have to teach sons to be, for lack of a better phrase, That Guy.

I'm sure you will teach your son to be That Guy. But there are far too many parents out there who won't, and this is part of the point.

[cz_unit]

Not too much of a chance there, he's going to be huge. As in 6'4 250lb class huge. As in my cousin Joe huge.

I don't want him to be "that guy". I want him to be like Tara and Bri: Confident in themselves, not afraid of the world. I don't want any of them to spend their lives apologizing for things that are not their fault, they can spend enough time doing it for the things that are.

Sorry, this thread really disturbs me. But I'm not going to teach them to *fear* the eeeevil sexual predator down the street. They'll know how to deal with it. Just like I did.

CZ

[perspicuity]

a while ago, we were told not to be "That Guy"

now there's a new "That Guy" we're suppose to be.

humor ;)

a lot of those "Nice Guys" (the original That Guy), learned that tooting their own horns, and proving their good deeds, all too often gets viewed as "showing off" or just digging the "That Guy" hole deeper. so instead, they/we just try to do and live and if our actions need be judged, the are done so on our histories and actions, not what we say.

don't pre-judge, lest ye also be pre-pre-judged. *humor*

#

[vvalkyri]

It goes back long before the 80's and 90's.

Who's teaching fear? Everyone: Google -- 'tips for women's safety'

Also see here re the fliers.

[cz_unit]

Cool. Fear is such a great tool to keep women in their place.

CZ

(no, it's not sarcasm. It's disturbing)

[vvalkyri]

(actually here, re the fliers...

[he_who_wanders]

"So this is what we get: A generation of women who are so afraid that they want men to say to them "don't worry, I won't rape you" on a bus

[lizkayl]

It's a cry for the stories of The Good Guy to be told. It's a cry for guys to admit to doing the right thing. We dwell on the one guy who does the wrong thing. The post is asking for guys to tell about Apropriate behavoir. About the time they did something to make someone else feel safe, or the time someone did something to make them feel safe.

All the stories are about the bad guy.

The post asks that stories of guys doing it right get told.

[cz_unit]

Unfortunately that is what we call "Dark Quality". You can't see it, can't measure it, can't define it other than by it's absence (Hey! I didn't rape anyone today). Unfortunately I can't really go around telling people this, and I really don't feel a screaming urge to do so.

Even to help this person out. What she might need to realize is that these things "are" the exception and not the rule. I can't change someone's opinion of that by anything I might say, or do. Sorry: I've dated one too many paranoids.

So I stay away, thankyouverymuch. Which reduces her audience of non-dick-head guys by one. Off we go.

Which probably makes me a dick-headed guy. Maybe. Hm. Oh well.

CZ

[lizkayl]

And that's the other half the post. You can't talk about rape without guys saying "I'm not like that. Most men are not like that." Because men getting offended to be grouped in like that.

One of the most fascinating replies was a post about a reverse 'How to avoid getting raped' flyer. They hand these out to college girls and these are honest ways to avoid getting raped. These are the situations that women honest-to-god have to keep an eye out for, these are when they have to be ultra aware. A group reversed the flyer- essentially, how to avoid acting like a potential rapist.

-call a woman friend to walk with you after dark to prove you are non-threatening
-if you have to walk late at night by yourself, be sure to keep a minimum distance between yourself and any women so that they know you are safe
- cross the street if you need to pass them
-don't go out in large groups late at night
-if you go on a date, make sure she's given your address and number to a friend and calls in to let them know she's safe
- etc