Debate question & other.

[vvalkyri]

1) Resolved: That in a committed relationship one has responsibility /to one’s mate/ to take care of oneself as best as one can, in order to lessen the risk one’s mate will be left alone due to an otherwise preventable death.(Obviously people still get hit by buses, and the debate resolution as written above attempts to differentiate between the

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[vvalkyri]

This post is for playing around with what ifs and thought experiments. It is not trying to send a message.

Ferex, some years ago when I was in FL, Dad sent me to check on someone he usually heard from on a morning, and who hadn’t called. Guy turned out to be in quite the addled state; my companion and I had at first thought maybe it was a low blood sugar thing, but at hospital it turned out that the [high] BG issues were possibly related to the Very very high blood pressure that was kindasorta acting like a stroke but not, but whatever it was eventually ended up with a bunch of time in rehab.

Recommendations include a rather large overhaul of eating habits, among other things. Guy’s significant other stocks his fridge and freezer with lean, lower salt entrees, fruits, veg, etc.

At some point in there the SO was beside herself b/c Guy would instead go for burgers and candy and such.

Were Guy’s SO to tell him, “look, if you won’t do it for you, do it for me” would that be fair or not fair? Manipulative? Silly? What if she said “what you’re doing is telling me you don’t care for me?” What if she said “if you loved me you would….”?

[emeraldliz]

Fair to ask, not fair to expect. Presuming "fair" means ethical and reasonable.

If they WANT to change for me, ok. But it first and foremost must align with what they want.

[shadeofnight]

Craving bad food is almost biological, and not easy to stop. It takes great will power to do so, and that of course means losing will power in other areas.

“what you’re doing is telling me you don’t care for me?” What if she said “if you loved me you would….”?

All of that is emotional blackmail. Bad form.

I REALLY hate the "if you loved me"... because that is saying if you loved me you would not be who you are, you would be the person I want you to be.

Most selfish thing someone can say to try to manipulate someone.

What ever happened to just good old fashion talking and communicating without all of the blackmail or manipulation? I know this is very anti-American culture to do so, but it seems to work best so far for those that have tried it.

My approach would be "Eating all of that red meat is not that good for you, but I understand it is hard to break those habits. If you are willing to try a little, I will do all I can to make it easier and help you along.".

If someone really cares, they will do all they can to help their partner succeed, but also know there are some changes that sometimes one can not make for different reasons and support them how ever you can.

If you can not love someone for who they are, maybe it is time to be honest with them, and worse case both people find someone new.

p.s. this is not an attack on you, just some of the phrases you used that are triggers.

[vvalkyri]

:half smile: and I was deliberately using known triggers in the lists of things the SO might say.

Thing is, were I she I'd probably very much feel that his actions implied a lack of regard for my well being, and not only for his own.

(but I'm also one of those people who will tell a suicidal person, "don't you dare do that to me")

[shadeofnight]

The problem is those are all selfish reasons for someone else to do what you wish for your benefit.

They do not solve the other persons problems, nor really help with the issues.

I also belief that no one should be so reliant on one other person that if they die, their own life crumbles to dust.

That is just unhealthy.

[vvalkyri]

So if you loved someone and she refused to ever wear her seatbelt you woudn't be at all upset with her?

[shadeofnight]

Upset with her? No...

But you make a bad case, because it is against the law, and I would not want a ticket.

I would be worried for her...

The rest is all in context.

Been nagging the back of my mind a while

[vvalkyri]

"don't you dare do that to me"

Short of "About time, go ahead, good riddance, what are you waiting for?" I'm hard pressed to think of a worse thing to say.

"Don't do that to me" speaks very loudly that your happiness, your convenience, and desire to avoid discomfort is far more important than whatever is bothering the person you're speaking to.

In spite of being nestled in a nimbus of genuine care that spawns the anger in that phrase, being told "your unhappiness is insignificant compared to my discomfort" and/or "you're not important" is probably not what they need/want to hear.

[selki]

I agree about what you describe as emotional blackmail. But I think “look, if you won’t do it for you, do it for me” is straightforward and can be effective (wouldn't be as effective on me if issued as a command, though).

Although not as direct, my sweetheart nudged me into making some improvements in self-care over time by explaining his worries, explaining the effects on him, and saying he wanted me around a long time. And I think that's OK.

[starfyrone]

Were Guy’s SO to tell him, “look, if you won’t do it for you, do it for me” would that be fair or not fair? Manipulative? Silly? What if she said “what you’re doing is telling me you don’t care for me?” What if she said “if you loved me you would….”?

All good examples of my first point below.
I've heard most all of those things said between friends.