GV syntax

[planetari]

Hi. I have two questions about syntax in Golic Vulcan.

First one, is the subject always necessary in a sentence when it is already implied? Nash-veh is an awfully long word to keep repeating in each sentence. I know an English sentence can never drop the subject, but in most European languages and Japanese (which shares quite a few similarities with

Comments

[diane_kepler]

Definitely agree on the dropping of pronouns. Sometimes you can even drop the verb. This can happen when you're using nam-tor (to be). Orenau Gol-Vuhlkansu could be taken as either "study of" or "I study" depending on whether it appears in the heading to a Vulcan language lesson or you're communicating with somebody about your studies.

Where you put the question particle, I think, also depends on the context. I would write "When does she arrive?" as Lasha lu? and "(I) will have it when (she) arrives." as Dungi ma ish-veh lu lasha. because the second one is not a question.

But that's just me.

[planetari]

Did you mean to phrase it as Dungi ma lu lasha ish-veh or Dungi ma nash-veh lu lasha? Because I guess that would translate more as "She will have it when (I) arrive"? Or maybe I'm not understanding correctly. But if I am, the word placement sounds just right and you have just answered all my questions. Thank you!

[diane_kepler]

You're right. Dungi ma ish-veh lu lasha is just "will have that-one when arrive". So it could mean either "I will have it when she arrives" or "She will have it when I arrive." You'd have to hear other parts of the conversation to know what the speaker was saying.

Dungi ma lu lasha ish-veh ("will have when arrive that-one") doesn't make sense to me gramatically. I'm feeling like there needs to be a subject or object after "ma", the verb.

Dungi ma nash-veh lu lasha is "will have this-one when arrive", which my brain immediately translated as "(She) will have me when (I) arrive". And while that sounds pretty interesting, I don't think it's what you were going for :)

[planetari]

I get it now :p Thanks for clearing that up for me!

[kiwiken]

I would think that it depends on the context what will be left out. So that, as an answer to the question: “Ma tu lan ha?” (Have you present yes?)
I’d believe “Dungi ma lu lasha ish-veh.“ (Will have when arrives she)
… may also be understood perfectly well, don’t you think?

I can totally see both subject and object being left out, especially if the object is merely an "it" that has been mentioned a moment ago, and the subject is the person speaking (and having been asked).

[diane_kepler]

I'd say yes, except the question particles generally come at the end of Vulcan sentences.

[kiwiken]

Hm. I'm not quite sure what you mean, since... doesn't it come at the end in my question? It's a yes/no question, so "ha" is the question indicator, right? And "ma" is the verb...

And the other one isn't a question, so it would be misleading to put "lu" to the end, wouldn't it? I think I even found an example in the phrase list of the VLI, where "lu" is used that way: Nar-tor tevakh - k'ken-tor kanok-ha'kiv sarlah na'shaht lu haishan wak. (... when time demands it.)

[diane_kepler]

See, this is why I shouldn't write about Vulcan language late at night.

Yes, you're right, the lu does _not_ have to be at the end in a sentence like this.

I'm going to see what Selek thinks this word order question. Maybe my initial instincts were wrong and both sentences may indeed be understood.