WATCHMEN = VERY, VERY GOOD MOVIE.
so i caved and took sibling and her friends to see Watchmen, even tho it opened today. the crowd was tolerable and the movie fuckin' rocked, so i forgive the three musketeers their continued trodding on my "do not make me sit in a crowd!!" rule. altho it royally sucked that for the first half of the movie, the person sitting next to me was crying; before the movie even started she kept sniffing. i don't think the star trek trailer could have possibly affected anyone that much, so there was something goin' on with the gal. i was on the fence between asking her if she was okay or asking to trade spots with one of the musketeers who was less likely to be bothered by the sounds. but the gal was with her significant other, there was a movie on, and i did not want to interrupt the awesome movie just to do what would be perceived as being bitchy. i digress. movie was awesome.
i can see why the reviews are coming in mixed because it's one of those movies that's got a storyline you can't just sit back and enjoy without thinking about and drawing comparisons and generally catching on to the darker realities that the story is more darkly mirroring/twisting. best way i can think to describe it is, you know how when someone tells you something you know to be true but that you don't like, rather than get mad at the truth, you get a flare of anger for the person who pointed it out? in this case, the movie's the messenger. you either 'get it' or you don't, i think. if you expect to walk in and check your brain at the door, like you can with an X-Men or Batman or Spiderman, forget it. good luck with that and lemme know how it turns out for you. and i've never read the comics, so i'm not pretending to be any kind of expert on the underlying messages or whatnot, but i think the movie was pretty overt about those messages. LOL! subtext not needed, the whole thing is packed to the gills.
and it's a very pretty movie, too, so it makes you think and it gives your eyes stuff to gape at. bit of a sensory overload at a few points. the camera angles were comic-bookish in that they were not your normal, i loved them. it was the best i've seen yet at making a movie feel like the frame-by-frame, fill-in-the-blanks of a comic book, very artful and smooth. the graphics were wonderful and very impressive, too. so it's still a visual movie, watch and think at the same time. i fail because 'pretty' is the only word that comes to mind to describe it at the moment. LOL!
and it is rated R!! graphic violence (but my squeamish self saw it coming in time to hide my eyes. 0=c> ) and nudity and sex. the kids weren't fans of the sex scenes, but my only "OH COME ON, DID YOU HAVE TO?!?!" moment in those was the butchering of 'hallelujah' playing over it. i prefer the jeff buckly version. but the version they chose, they played for obvious reasons that when all put together, worked very (hilariously!) well.
soundtrack for this movie, btw... JOY!!! i hate them for the number of songs that will randomly get stuck in my head now for the next week.
and other warning: 80's ALERT! 80'S ALERT! general nostalgia allll over the place. if that's not your thing, you might get uncomfortable. LOL!
on the way home, sibling tried again to assert her version of reality over what i remember, however, so i had to get online and look a few things up. having done so, i maintain that the chara "Rorschach / Walter Kovacs" is a sociopath. sad as it is, this is where a buncha semesters of my education went so even *I* had to have learned something; unfortunately i can't *talk* correctly, but i can *think* correctly to spite my mouth. sibling was confusing the definition of sociopath with the definition of sadism, almost word for word, so there was a very long debate on the actual definition of the word, which ended in her concluding that i'm a confused idiot and me being very frustrated at my inability to articulate things verbally.
for clarification purposes, i am including both definitions here.
Definition of "sociopath" in handy 'profile' form:
(( information gathered from here: http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html ))
((these are qualities, and not all will need be present to classify a person as a sociopath. however, kovacs had most of these, lol))
* Glibness and Superficial Charm
* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
* Incapacity for Love
* Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
* Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
* Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
* Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
* Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
* Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
* Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
* Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
Other Related Qualities:
1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3. Authoritarian
4. Secretive
5. Paranoid
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world
(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)
NOTE: In the 1830's this disorder was called "moral insanity." By 1900 it was changed to "psychopathic personality." More recently it has been termed "antisocial personality disorder" in the DSM-III and DSM-IV. Some critics have complained that, in the attempt to rely only on 'objective' criteria, the DSM has broadened the concept to include too many individuals. The APD category includes people who commit illegal, immoral or self-serving acts for a variety of reasons and are not necessarily psychopaths.
or, the wikipedia definition:
Antisocial personality disorder (APD) is a personality disorder. It is defined by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual: "The essential feature for the diagnosis is a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood."[1] Deceit and manipulation are considered essential features of the disorder. Therefore, it is essential in making the diagnosis to collect material from sources other than the individual being diagnosed. Also, the individual must be age 18 or older as well as have a documented history of a conduct disorder before the age of 15.[1]People having antisocial personality disorder are sometimes referred to as "sociopaths" and "psychopaths", although some researchers believe that Psychopathy/Sociopathy are not synonymous with APD.[2] It is not to be confused with Avoidant Personality Disorder, which more accurately describes people colloquially referred to as "anti-social".
Diagnostic criteria
Three or more of the following are required:[1]
1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
Definition of Sadism:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sadism is the derivation of pleasure as a result of inflicting pain or watching pain inflicted on others. Aspects of it include:
* Sadomasochism
* Sadism and masochism as medical terms, sadism and masochism as paraphilia
* Sadistic personality disorder, nonsexual sadism
so, my darling sib, you had the two reversed. in the context of our previous conversation about this character, sociopath is a relevant term. if he isn't considered sociopathic, his actions are.
regardless, twas still an awesome chara in a cast full of 'em, so ::shrug:: i love teh movie. but no, i'm not joining the fandom. watching the movie, i can just guess how scary the comic fen are. LOL
i can see why the reviews are coming in mixed because it's one of those movies that's got a storyline you can't just sit back and enjoy without thinking about and drawing comparisons and generally catching on to the darker realities that the story is more darkly mirroring/twisting. best way i can think to describe it is, you know how when someone tells you something you know to be true but that you don't like, rather than get mad at the truth, you get a flare of anger for the person who pointed it out? in this case, the movie's the messenger. you either 'get it' or you don't, i think. if you expect to walk in and check your brain at the door, like you can with an X-Men or Batman or Spiderman, forget it. good luck with that and lemme know how it turns out for you. and i've never read the comics, so i'm not pretending to be any kind of expert on the underlying messages or whatnot, but i think the movie was pretty overt about those messages. LOL! subtext not needed, the whole thing is packed to the gills.
and it's a very pretty movie, too, so it makes you think and it gives your eyes stuff to gape at. bit of a sensory overload at a few points. the camera angles were comic-bookish in that they were not your normal, i loved them. it was the best i've seen yet at making a movie feel like the frame-by-frame, fill-in-the-blanks of a comic book, very artful and smooth. the graphics were wonderful and very impressive, too. so it's still a visual movie, watch and think at the same time. i fail because 'pretty' is the only word that comes to mind to describe it at the moment. LOL!
and it is rated R!! graphic violence (but my squeamish self saw it coming in time to hide my eyes. 0=c> ) and nudity and sex. the kids weren't fans of the sex scenes, but my only "OH COME ON, DID YOU HAVE TO?!?!" moment in those was the butchering of 'hallelujah' playing over it. i prefer the jeff buckly version. but the version they chose, they played for obvious reasons that when all put together, worked very (hilariously!) well.
soundtrack for this movie, btw... JOY!!! i hate them for the number of songs that will randomly get stuck in my head now for the next week.
and other warning: 80's ALERT! 80'S ALERT! general nostalgia allll over the place. if that's not your thing, you might get uncomfortable. LOL!
on the way home, sibling tried again to assert her version of reality over what i remember, however, so i had to get online and look a few things up. having done so, i maintain that the chara "Rorschach / Walter Kovacs" is a sociopath. sad as it is, this is where a buncha semesters of my education went so even *I* had to have learned something; unfortunately i can't *talk* correctly, but i can *think* correctly to spite my mouth. sibling was confusing the definition of sociopath with the definition of sadism, almost word for word, so there was a very long debate on the actual definition of the word, which ended in her concluding that i'm a confused idiot and me being very frustrated at my inability to articulate things verbally.
for clarification purposes, i am including both definitions here.
Definition of "sociopath" in handy 'profile' form:
(( information gathered from here: http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html ))
((these are qualities, and not all will need be present to classify a person as a sociopath. however, kovacs had most of these, lol))
* Glibness and Superficial Charm
* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
* Incapacity for Love
* Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
* Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
* Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
* Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
* Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
* Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
* Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
* Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
Other Related Qualities:
1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3. Authoritarian
4. Secretive
5. Paranoid
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world
(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)
NOTE: In the 1830's this disorder was called "moral insanity." By 1900 it was changed to "psychopathic personality." More recently it has been termed "antisocial personality disorder" in the DSM-III and DSM-IV. Some critics have complained that, in the attempt to rely only on 'objective' criteria, the DSM has broadened the concept to include too many individuals. The APD category includes people who commit illegal, immoral or self-serving acts for a variety of reasons and are not necessarily psychopaths.
or, the wikipedia definition:
Antisocial personality disorder (APD) is a personality disorder. It is defined by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual: "The essential feature for the diagnosis is a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood."[1] Deceit and manipulation are considered essential features of the disorder. Therefore, it is essential in making the diagnosis to collect material from sources other than the individual being diagnosed. Also, the individual must be age 18 or older as well as have a documented history of a conduct disorder before the age of 15.[1]People having antisocial personality disorder are sometimes referred to as "sociopaths" and "psychopaths", although some researchers believe that Psychopathy/Sociopathy are not synonymous with APD.[2] It is not to be confused with Avoidant Personality Disorder, which more accurately describes people colloquially referred to as "anti-social".
Diagnostic criteria
Three or more of the following are required:[1]
1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
Definition of Sadism:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sadism is the derivation of pleasure as a result of inflicting pain or watching pain inflicted on others. Aspects of it include:
* Sadomasochism
* Sadism and masochism as medical terms, sadism and masochism as paraphilia
* Sadistic personality disorder, nonsexual sadism
so, my darling sib, you had the two reversed. in the context of our previous conversation about this character, sociopath is a relevant term. if he isn't considered sociopathic, his actions are.
regardless, twas still an awesome chara in a cast full of 'em, so ::shrug:: i love teh movie. but no, i'm not joining the fandom. watching the movie, i can just guess how scary the comic fen are. LOL