More trans-confusion

[vixenvixen]

Here is a brand new story from the Advocate about a legally transgendered man who is now having a baby. WHAT?? Yeah, all I have to say is I think the guy is a little confused about whether or not he really wants to be a man or a woman. And secondly, it can't be good for your body to go on and off of T like this. I first heard about it on Feast of

Comments

[vixenvixen]

I don't believe I am transphobic at all. I think everyone has the right to be whoever or whatever they want. My "confusion" or misunderstanding comes into identity. This particular guy is unhappy that people are completely bewildered by a "pregnant man." This guy is living as a legal man, with his legal wife, in a legal heterosexual situation. But ALSO wants the biological rights of a woman. His neighbors, coworkers, etc recognize him as a man..because this is what he has been portraying... and then he gets upset with these people when he physically expresses that he can also bear children. You can't honestly be upset that people, including doctors, are a little questioning of this. I quite frankly don't give a shit what people do with their lives, who they fuck, or what orifice they are fucking, but when someone portrays him/herself as one thing (a man in this case), they don't have much room to be knitpicky about people's reactions when they decide to attempt something that is conceptually inconceivable (being a pregnant man). What the hell are they going to tell their kid? "Your dad is actually your mom, but now he's your dad again.."? And just because there is no medical body of evidence regarding the use of T does not mean that it is not dangerous. It is not known yet, because there have not been enough studies over time.

[shawnaree]

Well, I'm sure they'll tell their kids exactly what they're telling us-- his wife is their mother, and he is their father.

Bearing a child does not a woman make. I think that's where we have differences in opinion. There are a lot of men I know who have given birth to children, before transition. This just takes more thought.

And... I think I would be unhappy too, if everyone around me was trying to force their morals on my body. Obviously, you can be a pregnant man, since he is a man, with a uterus, who has decided to use it. "You can't be pregnant because you're a man" is just as elitist in my opinion as "You have to shave your legs, you're a woman."

[vixenvixen]

I'm interested in your opinion on my previous entry on trans men going to women's colleges. Not that these two are the same issue, but they have similar threads.

Clearly we will have to agree to disagree on this.

Apparently tranny boi's have it all figured out...become legally male so you can enjoy the benefits of the straight world like marriage, etc (and yes, I do know that not all trans men date women, this is just an example), and still enjoy whatever benefits of your biological gender you want. Heck, I think I want to be trans...no more painful menstruation, I could actually marry my girlfriend legally in MI, and since I would still have a vagina I should still be able to call myself a lesbian. Perfect! I never knew I could have my cake and eat it too!

You are talking to a biologist...bearing child DOES a female make. There are only two biological genders (with exception to those born intersexed). You can be whatever gender or lack of gender in your mind, in your appearance, on your ID card, but when you bear a child you are partaking in a female-gendered act. This cannot be debated. Males cannot bear children. When this person portrays himself to be male, it is likely to raise many questions when suddenly he shows up pregnant. That is all I'm saying. He should do whatever the hell he wants to with his body..but don't expect people to not question it, to not have difficulty with it, and not wonder what the fuck is going on.

And I don't think bearing a child pre-transition is the same thing. At that point you are not saying to the world "I am a man." And shaving is not a biologically gender-specific act like bearing children. Having and X or Y chromosome does not determine personal grooming.

I am not trying to argue or change anyone's mind either. I think this is an interesting discussion, and everyone has different opinions.

[shawnaree]

I'll return to this thread when I'm a little more cognizant, but I just want to point out that, to me, biology determines sex, not gender. To me, gender is a social construct, and sex is a biological construct.

Also, I find the entire paragraph "apparently all tranny bois" as offensive. The term "tranny" has negative and diminutive connotations which I find dismissive, and I also think that the current amount of seething dislike directed at transmen by lesbians is distasteful (not by you necessarily, but as a whole). I did not become a man to gain male privilege, though I recognize that I am in a position to benefit from it, regardless of whether I would like to. I became a man (again, i stress that I will never be male... because I think its silly to belabour the point-- transmen, no matter how masculine-identified can never be 100% male), because I feel more comfortable with myself, and with how I view myself, when I think of myself as masculine, as a man. Though it has a little to do with how other people interact with me, primarily its about finding comfort in my body. It is not a flippant or easy decision.

To that point, as a biologist, it makes perfect sense that human beings with vaginas and uteruses get pregnant. It also makes sense that human beings who have chemically altered their bodies (pick your hormone-- progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, insulin...) have a right to continue to use their functional organs. I didn't get the point of your original post to be about the societal reaction to his pregnancy-- rather I gathered you had a lot of dislike of the fellow for "having his cake and eating it too"- a sentiment echoed by much of the non-trans American population.

The point you make in this last comment seems to say to me that you resent him for having straight male privilege while simultaneously being allowed to have access to what you consider a "woman's right". Though I'm sure that on a daily basis this guy has gotten his fair share of SMP, I also think that you're being a little dismissive of how /hard/ it is to be trans. It's not so simple as sticking oneself with a needle and voila-- man. There's a whole period of socialisation-- where I am now-- where I don't know how to act around anyone. I don't fit in with women, and I can't fit in with men... and when I start fitting in with men, I know that I'll never been completely one of /them/ any more than I was a woman. I'm always an outsider. I'm a man without a penis, and now people are trying to tell me I can't use my uterus either? who gave them permission to tell me what I can and cannot do with the parts that I have?

Anyway,I'm probably not making a lot of sense, and I will come back to this, but I think it's okay that people are questioning his decision, and in turn being given an opportunity to question their own beliefs about gender. I also think there's a difference between "I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of a pregnant dad.How does that work biologically, and what does that say about the construct of gender?" and "that's just wrong, how dare he, doesn't he know that bearing children is women's work only, and he can get out and stay out of our special little club."

I'll come back to this to talk about women's colleges... I promise... once I have some sleep. I do like the discourse, and I'm not trying to sound argumentative-- it's just been a long week. However, I would like to point out also that I hold this same argument with people who believe that transwomen shouldn't be allowed at Michigan Womyn's Music Festival.

PS how is having been a mother and then transitioning not the same thing? How do you say to your neighbor, "this is my 14 year old daughter Tanya, and I'm her mother even though I'm a man?" (a problem one of my friends is preparing to deal with).

Also, how is it that this fella is getting balked at for wanting to have a child when, should he and his wife have wanted to adopt, they would have most likely (depends on the state) been found undesireable because of his transgender status?