Dark and Edgy
As ever, your mileage may vary.
Maya: Though I must admit, I like that the "main" character [in our favorite anime shows] is not expected to be Moral and Upstanding by default.
Maya: Very different from American action shows.
Viridian5: Andromeda flirted with it before Tribune and Sorbo put the thumbscrews on. And Farscape has an array of bent characters but John's upstanding and tries hard.
Maya: Though Farscape was more successful than most, I feel, not the least because John went so nuts near the end of the series.
Viridian5: And the show got killed for it.
Viridian5: It was interesting, because Farscape never succeeded for me.
Viridian5: I know people who are mad passionate about it, but it had problems for me.
Maya: And I remember reading how FOX execs kept pressuring Joss Whedon to make Mal a more moral, heroic guy who was always right.....
Viridian5: Yeah, I read that too.
Maya: Really? That's interesting-- I always loved Farscape, but I never felt the compulsion to write fanfic for it. It was one of those stories that felt, y'know, complete without my input.
Viridian5: But FOX is run by show-killing dickwads, more so than usual.
Maya: Indeed.
Viridian5: Me too. But, hey, you wanna hear my Farscape issues?
Maya: Hey, sure!
Viridian5: First, Farscape is always aware of how edgy it is. It declares constantly that it is edgy, risk-taking. There are decisions made in the writing where I felt that it was all about that. Not about doing what should be done but keeping up that standard of edgy risk-taking.
Viridian5: Second, the reverse expectation from normal shows, in that things will always end up worse at the end of the story than when it started. It's always worse.
Viridian5: Any time a story starts, you know that anything they do will make the situation worse. It never fails.
Viridian5: It's oppressive in the opposite direction. It takes the surprise out of it for me.
Maya: That's very interesting. And not something I necessarily would've picked up on, because I don't feel... you know... invested in it enough to examine it like that. Which, oddly enough, seems the opposite of what you did. *g*
Maya: My own, personal issues with Farscape is that I lost the thread of the story somewhere along the line and felt like I spent the rest of the time playing catch-up.
Viridian5: It is a show where you have no choice but to see it from the beginning and keep up with it. I treasure continuity like any other good geek... er, fan, but this is too much.
Viridian5: Yeah.
Maya: Also, at some point it got a little too dark for me, probably for the reasons you mentioned. I'm all for darkness, but I need goofiness as well, and the balance was just a bit beyond what I was comfortable with.
Viridian5: I'm with you. Even its goofy moments seemed grim.
Viridian5: Third, these people really are a group of self-interested bastards. Yeah, I like my characters dark, but I also like to know that deep down they care for each other and have some loyalty.
Viridian5: Like the Maru crew.
Viridian5: Farscape lost me character-wise when most of the crew decided to saw off Pilot's arm to get maps to show them their homes.
Viridian5: Yes, it will grow back eventually, but that completely wasn't the point.
Maya: See, I can overlook that because at that point they still hadn't developed that loyalty. It comes later on, then starts to disappear again once Zhaan leaves and the revolving-cast-of-characters starts up.
Viridian5: I never felt like the loyalty really developed.
Viridian5: The show lost me then. I'll keep up with it, but love it? No.
Viridian5: For me, that was a defining moment for these people. Once you saw a limb off a conscious suffering sentient being who is a companion of yours, all bets are off.
Maya: Yeah, probably. *g*
Viridian5: So, issues, I have a few. *g*
Maya: I always felt like there was more happening offstage than on, and that character bits were sacrificed for action. Which is, you know, a common problem.
Maya: Issues, hey, who doesn't have 'em?
Viridian5: True.
Viridian5: It's also hard for me to watch characters make the same mistakes repeatedly.
Maya: Like John's wormhole obsession, for example? God that was annoying.
Viridian5: Or Chiana's sexlife/flirtation with D'Argo. That thing with his son was so wrong but also so stupidly inevitable for that character.
Maya: Chiana/D'Argo was just a bad idea to begin with, I feel.
Viridian5: But... did he really think he could marry her and they'd settle down on a farm?
Viridian5: It was a huge bad idea.
Maya: And then afterwards he takes up with Jool! Like, dude... enough with the small female sex kittens, okay?
Viridian5: That screaming chick was just unpleasant, and I didn't know why they kept her or the orange chick around. Both were superior twits
Maya: See, I kinda liked Sikozu. Because she was very entertainingly bitchy, whereas Jool was just... loud.
Viridian5: The grandmotherly one became dues ex machina personified, since she had a powder to fix anything. Badly.
Maya: Oh, God, don't even get me started. So wrong.
Viridian5: With how hardcore these folks were, I wondered why they put up with bitchiness from any of the crew.
Maya: That's a very good point. They could kick these twits' asses from here till Tuesday.
Viridian5: It's not like they have a conscience holding them back.
Maya: Mwahaha. Apparently not.
Viridian5: And Scorpius as a crewmember? Ha. Ha. Not.
Maya: I feel like Scorpius reached Spike-esque proportions of "They loved him as a bad guy, so let's make him a member of the team!" Which. No.
Viridian5: Yeah. The actor actually feels the same way.
Viridian5: He loves it that Scorpius strangled Sikozu for no real reason.
Maya: Well, go Wayne!
Maya: So clearly I have some problems with the show, but they were never really issues with me. *g*
Viridian5: Yeah, he thought it was a bad decision to make Scorpius a crewmember or for him to have something that was recognizably sex with that lizard woman thing.
Viridian5: Ha!
Viridian5: I just had to coax 'em out.
Maya: You're such an... influence. Good? Bad? Couldn't say.
Viridian5: ::influential::
Maya: Though I must admit, I like that the "main" character [in our favorite anime shows] is not expected to be Moral and Upstanding by default.
Maya: Very different from American action shows.
Viridian5: Andromeda flirted with it before Tribune and Sorbo put the thumbscrews on. And Farscape has an array of bent characters but John's upstanding and tries hard.
Maya: Though Farscape was more successful than most, I feel, not the least because John went so nuts near the end of the series.
Viridian5: And the show got killed for it.
Viridian5: It was interesting, because Farscape never succeeded for me.
Viridian5: I know people who are mad passionate about it, but it had problems for me.
Maya: And I remember reading how FOX execs kept pressuring Joss Whedon to make Mal a more moral, heroic guy who was always right.....
Viridian5: Yeah, I read that too.
Maya: Really? That's interesting-- I always loved Farscape, but I never felt the compulsion to write fanfic for it. It was one of those stories that felt, y'know, complete without my input.
Viridian5: But FOX is run by show-killing dickwads, more so than usual.
Maya: Indeed.
Viridian5: Me too. But, hey, you wanna hear my Farscape issues?
Maya: Hey, sure!
Viridian5: First, Farscape is always aware of how edgy it is. It declares constantly that it is edgy, risk-taking. There are decisions made in the writing where I felt that it was all about that. Not about doing what should be done but keeping up that standard of edgy risk-taking.
Viridian5: Second, the reverse expectation from normal shows, in that things will always end up worse at the end of the story than when it started. It's always worse.
Viridian5: Any time a story starts, you know that anything they do will make the situation worse. It never fails.
Viridian5: It's oppressive in the opposite direction. It takes the surprise out of it for me.
Maya: That's very interesting. And not something I necessarily would've picked up on, because I don't feel... you know... invested in it enough to examine it like that. Which, oddly enough, seems the opposite of what you did. *g*
Maya: My own, personal issues with Farscape is that I lost the thread of the story somewhere along the line and felt like I spent the rest of the time playing catch-up.
Viridian5: It is a show where you have no choice but to see it from the beginning and keep up with it. I treasure continuity like any other good geek... er, fan, but this is too much.
Viridian5: Yeah.
Maya: Also, at some point it got a little too dark for me, probably for the reasons you mentioned. I'm all for darkness, but I need goofiness as well, and the balance was just a bit beyond what I was comfortable with.
Viridian5: I'm with you. Even its goofy moments seemed grim.
Viridian5: Third, these people really are a group of self-interested bastards. Yeah, I like my characters dark, but I also like to know that deep down they care for each other and have some loyalty.
Viridian5: Like the Maru crew.
Viridian5: Farscape lost me character-wise when most of the crew decided to saw off Pilot's arm to get maps to show them their homes.
Viridian5: Yes, it will grow back eventually, but that completely wasn't the point.
Maya: See, I can overlook that because at that point they still hadn't developed that loyalty. It comes later on, then starts to disappear again once Zhaan leaves and the revolving-cast-of-characters starts up.
Viridian5: I never felt like the loyalty really developed.
Viridian5: The show lost me then. I'll keep up with it, but love it? No.
Viridian5: For me, that was a defining moment for these people. Once you saw a limb off a conscious suffering sentient being who is a companion of yours, all bets are off.
Maya: Yeah, probably. *g*
Viridian5: So, issues, I have a few. *g*
Maya: I always felt like there was more happening offstage than on, and that character bits were sacrificed for action. Which is, you know, a common problem.
Maya: Issues, hey, who doesn't have 'em?
Viridian5: True.
Viridian5: It's also hard for me to watch characters make the same mistakes repeatedly.
Maya: Like John's wormhole obsession, for example? God that was annoying.
Viridian5: Or Chiana's sexlife/flirtation with D'Argo. That thing with his son was so wrong but also so stupidly inevitable for that character.
Maya: Chiana/D'Argo was just a bad idea to begin with, I feel.
Viridian5: But... did he really think he could marry her and they'd settle down on a farm?
Viridian5: It was a huge bad idea.
Maya: And then afterwards he takes up with Jool! Like, dude... enough with the small female sex kittens, okay?
Viridian5: That screaming chick was just unpleasant, and I didn't know why they kept her or the orange chick around. Both were superior twits
Maya: See, I kinda liked Sikozu. Because she was very entertainingly bitchy, whereas Jool was just... loud.
Viridian5: The grandmotherly one became dues ex machina personified, since she had a powder to fix anything. Badly.
Maya: Oh, God, don't even get me started. So wrong.
Viridian5: With how hardcore these folks were, I wondered why they put up with bitchiness from any of the crew.
Maya: That's a very good point. They could kick these twits' asses from here till Tuesday.
Viridian5: It's not like they have a conscience holding them back.
Maya: Mwahaha. Apparently not.
Viridian5: And Scorpius as a crewmember? Ha. Ha. Not.
Maya: I feel like Scorpius reached Spike-esque proportions of "They loved him as a bad guy, so let's make him a member of the team!" Which. No.
Viridian5: Yeah. The actor actually feels the same way.
Viridian5: He loves it that Scorpius strangled Sikozu for no real reason.
Maya: Well, go Wayne!
Maya: So clearly I have some problems with the show, but they were never really issues with me. *g*
Viridian5: Yeah, he thought it was a bad decision to make Scorpius a crewmember or for him to have something that was recognizably sex with that lizard woman thing.
Viridian5: Ha!
Viridian5: I just had to coax 'em out.
Maya: You're such an... influence. Good? Bad? Couldn't say.
Viridian5: ::influential::