(no subject)
Okay I mostly try to keep my journal balanced because I have friends who are into anime/manga and some who are not but I really need to talk about the issues with Hetalia dub produced by FUNimation. Rant ahead. I'll try to provide links as I go along. :)
Now I was never against the dub and here in Germany a lot of anime and almost all movies get dubbed so I've grown up with dubs. I've also grown up with anime fans who complain that the Japanese original was better and that they should keep the Japanese openings instead of producing German ones. Now the dubs of old series like Ranma, Detective Conan and Jeanne. I love those. Somwhere down the line starting with One Piece and then Naruto they went too far and started cutting too much since they imported the American version, that was already cut, for Naruto. I still love the German openings for One Piece though and the cuts there didn't take anything away from the story. But you will never hear me complaining too much about the voice actors because I'm just glad that we have such a big anime/manga community here in Germany that allows us to have a lot of meet ups and conventions. If I have issues with a dub it's easy enough to watch it online.
Since I hardly ever remember voice actor's names (be it American, German or Japanese) I didn't really care who spoke who. I might recognize the voice but I won't think of any other character they spoke when they have a new role. So when the voice actors cast was announced for the American dub I was fine with it. When they said the characters were going to have stereotypical accents of their respective country I was fine with it. I mean people do that in fanfiction all the time right even if it's not really in the Japanese series? So yes so far so good.
Now we come to the part where it gets really bad. Where I can't stop my rage and I won't and the reason I'm writing this entry. Well as I'm sure you all know FUNi released the first four episodes online of the dub. I had already seen their introduction and world buffet videos and I was a little wary since their constant insistence that it was all rainbows and World War II. Screencap taken from this post by radittz in which she also says
"I'm not super serious about this topic, but it really looks like: wooohooo!! invasion of Poland and beginning of the war!! What a fun!!! >__> I think it gives a wrong impression about whole Hetalia - Himaruya showed that time in a funny way, but you could feel that something bad is coming, here it's a pure joy..."
and I agree. It seemed a bit out of touch with the actual series. I like that they encouraged the fans to communicate with them though. But the way the people working on the series talked about the it felt a bit like they didn't quiet get it and had a more shall we say "fanon" view on it. But I was willing to give it a try and didn't think it would be that bad.
Now when did the problems start? The problems started with the four first episodes posted online. Here's the post where you can watch them if you're in the hetalia comm and haven't seen them and want to. Now at first it was just the issue of disliking the the dub. It's fine. I dislike it other people don't. And why did I dislike it at first? And yes I participated a lot there because I felt pretty alone with my opinion.
Well a lot of people have a lot of good quotes on that. But I'm here to say my opinion so I'm not gonna quote any (and honestly I just had the quotes but I forgot where. :|). There was a fandomsecret on it. I'll come to that later. Basically they completely changed the dialogue. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't care if they change a Japanese jokes that would require a lot of footnotes to explain. But this was more than that.
I always take the "Herr Stick" scene as example but when you watch with original in mind you notice a lot of unnecessary changes. Anyway in the original it was Germany talking about passing the Italian border with just a stick and then he finds the box with Italy in it. But in the dub he talks to the stick in his hand saying he's sorry that he hasn't fed it and giving it a name. Now even if you haven't seen the scenes you notice the difference. To me this is just like an Abridged series or a parody. It's making up a gag script to the pictures that sorta fits. But what is Funi doing? They're making a serious dub. Sure some changes are necessary and a serious dub will change dialogue to make it more accessible to the watchers in their country and to match the dialogue with the pictures.
So yes I did have a problem with that and mentioned it as my reasoning for disliking the dub. But I had no problem with other people liking it. I mean some people liked the laughs. I didn't because it wasn't “real” or “official”. Yes some people were happy and took it as canon especially if their ship was mentioned (France said US/UK had UST etc.). I wouldn't want that for mine but I don't care if you like it.
The real problems came with the stuff that partly went unheard because it was either said in the accents or in a mutter with multiple characters talking so it wasn't heard. But the jokes just went too far. I know people say Hetalia is offensive. People who don't like it I mean and people who love the dub I guess. But it was never like this. In the original they made fun of all countries. They avoided the serious subjects in history that you don't really joke about. I'm quoting here
“Himaruya's original strips were satire, but not in the same way that South Park and other series are. He kept things from crossing the line and getting truly offensive. The Holocaust was never joked about. The Rape of Nanking never came up. Slavery, genocide, the really dark parts of history, those weren't really a part of Hetalia. The original series was actually very light hearted and no where near as offensive as its reputation. A lot of the controversy now comes from the fact that the dub is crossing those lines that Himaruya was keeping away from.“.
The quote is by inner_wings . They wrote a great post about how to contact Funimation if you have concerns here.
Here are some examples of the jokes that weren't appropriate to me:
"Plus [Germany]'s strong and pretty and whiter than anybody! And that has got to count for something in this day and age, at least when keeping liquor stores out of your neighborhood."
from the Romano dub excerpt post. And here
“Romano: I have another suprise for you!
Germany: What is it? Another Jew?”
This was bleeped out but revealed at some sort of showing. Here's the hetalia_wank post on it.
And before you say it yes there are a lot of shows that make Holocaust, Nazis and WWII jokes. Like South Park (or so I have heard). But you know what? I don't like South Park or any other show who does that for that reason. I don't care if people do but Hetalia was never about these kind of jokes. And I think all the people who say that the original is as offensive to the Japanese in their culture as the dub is to Americans (or Europeans) I guess aren't right. You can say what you will but I simply don't believe that. So yeah Hetalia =/= South Park, Family Guy and the likes. Here is an awesome thread on the main comm with people explaining why it is offensive in Hetalia and nobody complain about those other shows mentioned.
Not to mention that it portrays some characters (Germany in my examples) totally OOC from the original series. What I like so much about Hetalia is that every character is there to make fun of stereotypes that exist but is still loveable. Germany isn't a Nazi. He even said that he thinks his boss (boss = prime minister, head of state etc.) at the time of WWII was insane. But to me it just feels like Funimation took the concept of characters = countries in WWII (and Hetalia is actually mostly NOT about WWII and there are many strips and episodes on other history or simply stereotypes) and made it into something so offensive that I would understand anyone who watched the dubbed version and declared it absolutely offensive and inappropriate.
I guess that's all I have to say I just wanted to explain my stance and provide some links for people confused. I have to say the reactions to the “How To Contact FUNi” post makes me a bit upset. I know a lot of people like the dub and because they like that humour but they should respect those who don't when they want to express their opinion right? And if it helps at least one person who wants to contact them it's worth it. Sure they might find the address but a post on the main comm will help more people because a lot of people watch the comm.
And that's all I wanted to say. I don't like the dub. I think it's offensive. It isn't Hetalia to me any more. I have some issues with the growing fandom and some of the stuff that happened recently to give it an even more bad name too but this is solely about the dub.
Now I was never against the dub and here in Germany a lot of anime and almost all movies get dubbed so I've grown up with dubs. I've also grown up with anime fans who complain that the Japanese original was better and that they should keep the Japanese openings instead of producing German ones. Now the dubs of old series like Ranma, Detective Conan and Jeanne. I love those. Somwhere down the line starting with One Piece and then Naruto they went too far and started cutting too much since they imported the American version, that was already cut, for Naruto. I still love the German openings for One Piece though and the cuts there didn't take anything away from the story. But you will never hear me complaining too much about the voice actors because I'm just glad that we have such a big anime/manga community here in Germany that allows us to have a lot of meet ups and conventions. If I have issues with a dub it's easy enough to watch it online.
Since I hardly ever remember voice actor's names (be it American, German or Japanese) I didn't really care who spoke who. I might recognize the voice but I won't think of any other character they spoke when they have a new role. So when the voice actors cast was announced for the American dub I was fine with it. When they said the characters were going to have stereotypical accents of their respective country I was fine with it. I mean people do that in fanfiction all the time right even if it's not really in the Japanese series? So yes so far so good.
Now we come to the part where it gets really bad. Where I can't stop my rage and I won't and the reason I'm writing this entry. Well as I'm sure you all know FUNi released the first four episodes online of the dub. I had already seen their introduction and world buffet videos and I was a little wary since their constant insistence that it was all rainbows and World War II. Screencap taken from this post by radittz in which she also says
"I'm not super serious about this topic, but it really looks like: wooohooo!! invasion of Poland and beginning of the war!! What a fun!!! >__> I think it gives a wrong impression about whole Hetalia - Himaruya showed that time in a funny way, but you could feel that something bad is coming, here it's a pure joy..."
and I agree. It seemed a bit out of touch with the actual series. I like that they encouraged the fans to communicate with them though. But the way the people working on the series talked about the it felt a bit like they didn't quiet get it and had a more shall we say "fanon" view on it. But I was willing to give it a try and didn't think it would be that bad.
Now when did the problems start? The problems started with the four first episodes posted online. Here's the post where you can watch them if you're in the hetalia comm and haven't seen them and want to. Now at first it was just the issue of disliking the the dub. It's fine. I dislike it other people don't. And why did I dislike it at first? And yes I participated a lot there because I felt pretty alone with my opinion.
Well a lot of people have a lot of good quotes on that. But I'm here to say my opinion so I'm not gonna quote any (and honestly I just had the quotes but I forgot where. :|). There was a fandomsecret on it. I'll come to that later. Basically they completely changed the dialogue. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't care if they change a Japanese jokes that would require a lot of footnotes to explain. But this was more than that.
I always take the "Herr Stick" scene as example but when you watch with original in mind you notice a lot of unnecessary changes. Anyway in the original it was Germany talking about passing the Italian border with just a stick and then he finds the box with Italy in it. But in the dub he talks to the stick in his hand saying he's sorry that he hasn't fed it and giving it a name. Now even if you haven't seen the scenes you notice the difference. To me this is just like an Abridged series or a parody. It's making up a gag script to the pictures that sorta fits. But what is Funi doing? They're making a serious dub. Sure some changes are necessary and a serious dub will change dialogue to make it more accessible to the watchers in their country and to match the dialogue with the pictures.
So yes I did have a problem with that and mentioned it as my reasoning for disliking the dub. But I had no problem with other people liking it. I mean some people liked the laughs. I didn't because it wasn't “real” or “official”. Yes some people were happy and took it as canon especially if their ship was mentioned (France said US/UK had UST etc.). I wouldn't want that for mine but I don't care if you like it.
The real problems came with the stuff that partly went unheard because it was either said in the accents or in a mutter with multiple characters talking so it wasn't heard. But the jokes just went too far. I know people say Hetalia is offensive. People who don't like it I mean and people who love the dub I guess. But it was never like this. In the original they made fun of all countries. They avoided the serious subjects in history that you don't really joke about. I'm quoting here
“Himaruya's original strips were satire, but not in the same way that South Park and other series are. He kept things from crossing the line and getting truly offensive. The Holocaust was never joked about. The Rape of Nanking never came up. Slavery, genocide, the really dark parts of history, those weren't really a part of Hetalia. The original series was actually very light hearted and no where near as offensive as its reputation. A lot of the controversy now comes from the fact that the dub is crossing those lines that Himaruya was keeping away from.“.
The quote is by inner_wings . They wrote a great post about how to contact Funimation if you have concerns here.
Here are some examples of the jokes that weren't appropriate to me:
"Plus [Germany]'s strong and pretty and whiter than anybody! And that has got to count for something in this day and age, at least when keeping liquor stores out of your neighborhood."
from the Romano dub excerpt post. And here
“Romano: I have another suprise for you!
Germany: What is it? Another Jew?”
This was bleeped out but revealed at some sort of showing. Here's the hetalia_wank post on it.
And before you say it yes there are a lot of shows that make Holocaust, Nazis and WWII jokes. Like South Park (or so I have heard). But you know what? I don't like South Park or any other show who does that for that reason. I don't care if people do but Hetalia was never about these kind of jokes. And I think all the people who say that the original is as offensive to the Japanese in their culture as the dub is to Americans (or Europeans) I guess aren't right. You can say what you will but I simply don't believe that. So yeah Hetalia =/= South Park, Family Guy and the likes. Here is an awesome thread on the main comm with people explaining why it is offensive in Hetalia and nobody complain about those other shows mentioned.
Not to mention that it portrays some characters (Germany in my examples) totally OOC from the original series. What I like so much about Hetalia is that every character is there to make fun of stereotypes that exist but is still loveable. Germany isn't a Nazi. He even said that he thinks his boss (boss = prime minister, head of state etc.) at the time of WWII was insane. But to me it just feels like Funimation took the concept of characters = countries in WWII (and Hetalia is actually mostly NOT about WWII and there are many strips and episodes on other history or simply stereotypes) and made it into something so offensive that I would understand anyone who watched the dubbed version and declared it absolutely offensive and inappropriate.
I guess that's all I have to say I just wanted to explain my stance and provide some links for people confused. I have to say the reactions to the “How To Contact FUNi” post makes me a bit upset. I know a lot of people like the dub and because they like that humour but they should respect those who don't when they want to express their opinion right? And if it helps at least one person who wants to contact them it's worth it. Sure they might find the address but a post on the main comm will help more people because a lot of people watch the comm.
And that's all I wanted to say. I don't like the dub. I think it's offensive. It isn't Hetalia to me any more. I have some issues with the growing fandom and some of the stuff that happened recently to give it an even more bad name too but this is solely about the dub.