Ah, okay, it sounded like you were referencing criticism of this episode without saying what that criticism would be, so I thought maybe I'd missed something!
Oh. Yeah, we disagree on that, I guess. I rarely feel that she show is actually catering to slash fans. I feel like they're catering to an audience that likes buddy cop shows, and slash fandom just interprets this as slash fan service. The "your dads are here" comment barely even registered to me as a slashy moment until a moment later when I was like, "...oh god, fandom's going to jump all over this." (Personally I find that episodes like 3x06 feed my shipper feelings waaaaaaay more than throwaway comments.) The first thing I thought was that Steve's reaction was perfect. He wasn't offended at being mistaken for gay, which I thought fit with his character very well. I guess that's what I took from that moment, that it was a non-issue, not "OMFG HUSBANDS!!!1!" I guess I don't really see what was wrong with the comment. It felt like the same brand of humor that we got in 3x04 when the fortune teller mistook Danny and Kono for lovers and said they'd have many children together. It didn't feel like a joke about homosexuality.
Yeah, I have issues with Adam sometimes too, especially now that he's with Kono. Sang Min feels different to me because of the nature of his crimes, which skeeved me out on a personal level.
That makes sense, especially about Kono. I didn't feel that Steve's commentary on Danny's nephew was strictly necessary in this episode, though I would have liked to see it. In general, the individual story lines were meaty enough for me.
I have the feeling the show is catering to straight slash fans. I don't think it's catering to lgbt fans, which is maybe where the distinction comes from. I don't enjoy these throwaway lines either, they're there and I don't much care for them, and indeed, like you, I take much more away from intense moments than throwaway lines. Steve's reaction was great! He didn't care, and I loved that, too. It was definitely not a joke about being gay, but it did feel heavy-handed to me, as their marriage jokes so often do.
I understand what you mean about Sang Min being skeevier, but I do enjoy the way that we know both Sang Min's crimes and are shown his human side and must choose.
I don't think anything was strictly necessary in the ep, but those are the parts I tend to really enjoy about the show and it made this ep feel a little lean not to have them. But I can see your point.
tbh, I'm not sure what the line between queerbaiting and subtext is, or if H50 crosses it. Maybe it's because I can't easily separate my feelings about (some parts of) the fandom and my feelings about the content of the show itself, at least as far as homophobia is concerned. It all blurs together and feels more entrenched in fandom than, say, sexism or racism. I'm also just not really equipped to comment on how television, marketing, and fan service works, so I defer to other people when this subject comes up! I usually just go by how a scene/comment makes me feel, and I didn't feel like I was being made fun of in that scene, but if someone else feels like they are being mocked then I understand and won't argue with that. H50 does a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong. But yes, I know what you mean about it feeling heavy-handed. I was like, why would this girl automatically assume these guys are her friend's dads, then yell it across the room without asking them first?? (Also, why does no one ever seem to notice their badges? They're usually not hidden, especially Danny's since he keeps his shirt tucked in...)
Yeah, I get it. I generally like the team-centric episodes better too, or at least where we get development of some permutation of the team (Steve/Danny, Danny/Kono, etc.).
I think the line between the two isn't clearly defined; it's a matter of personal opinion and very arbitrary. As for fandom, I think it isn't necessarily more entrenched, but I do think it's not open for criticism and discussion the way matters of race and gender are. But that might just be my impression.
I know what you mean about the badges (Danny's dick wears a badge, fandom always says :) they're pretty front and centre. It was clear they wanted to slip this line in, which is fine but could have been a bit more subtle.
I watch for the character stuff, even if it's a procedural, so development eps will always be a favourite :)
What I mean by entrenched is that queer baiting is so connected with fandom. It's tied up in what showrunners think fandom wants to see, that they're catering to people under the table without actually giving anyone anything. It's a symbiotic relationship between showrunners and slash fandom. So I get fed up with certain parts of fandom that lap this shit up, but it just makes it that much more confusing when I try to work out exactly what the show itself was trying to do, or is doing. With H50, most of my irritation comes from the fandom's end of things rather than the show itself. The show presents an openly caring and affectionate relationship between two men, and fandom responds with "gaaaaaaaaay." It seems to be more problematic on the fandom's side than the show's side, but if another lgbtq person sees queerbaiting where I am not then I am interested in hearing their thoughts. I don't read articles and watch interviews as often as most people, so maybe I'm missing some of the queerbaiting that goes on BTS, I don't know. But as an lgbtq person, the fandom makes me far more uncomfortable at times than the show or showrunners ever have.
Ah, like that. Yes, I think that this show is much better at trying to refrain from (openly) queerbaiting than some others. And I agree that the fandom seems to purely treat anything that can potentially be read as gay as their property and the only right way to interpret things, making lgbtq potential in canon to be solely for consumption rather than potential diversity or just a fact of life.
the fandom seems to purely treat anything that can potentially be read as gay as their property and the only right way to interpret things, making lgbtq potential in canon to be solely for consumption rather than potential diversity or just a fact of life
Yes, this is what bothers me. "Their property" is a good way of putting it!
Oh. Yeah, we disagree on that, I guess. I rarely feel that she show is actually catering to slash fans. I feel like they're catering to an audience that likes buddy cop shows, and slash fandom just interprets this as slash fan service. The "your dads are here" comment barely even registered to me as a slashy moment until a moment later when I was like, "...oh god, fandom's going to jump all over this." (Personally I find that episodes like 3x06 feed my shipper feelings waaaaaaay more than throwaway comments.) The first thing I thought was that Steve's reaction was perfect. He wasn't offended at being mistaken for gay, which I thought fit with his character very well. I guess that's what I took from that moment, that it was a non-issue, not "OMFG HUSBANDS!!!1!" I guess I don't really see what was wrong with the comment. It felt like the same brand of humor that we got in 3x04 when the fortune teller mistook Danny and Kono for lovers and said they'd have many children together. It didn't feel like a joke about homosexuality.
Yeah, I have issues with Adam sometimes too, especially now that he's with Kono. Sang Min feels different to me because of the nature of his crimes, which skeeved me out on a personal level.
That makes sense, especially about Kono. I didn't feel that Steve's commentary on Danny's nephew was strictly necessary in this episode, though I would have liked to see it. In general, the individual story lines were meaty enough for me.
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I have the feeling the show is catering to straight slash fans. I don't think it's catering to lgbt fans, which is maybe where the distinction comes from. I don't enjoy these throwaway lines either, they're there and I don't much care for them, and indeed, like you, I take much more away from intense moments than throwaway lines. Steve's reaction was great! He didn't care, and I loved that, too. It was definitely not a joke about being gay, but it did feel heavy-handed to me, as their marriage jokes so often do.
I understand what you mean about Sang Min being skeevier, but I do enjoy the way that we know both Sang Min's crimes and are shown his human side and must choose.
I don't think anything was strictly necessary in the ep, but those are the parts I tend to really enjoy about the show and it made this ep feel a little lean not to have them. But I can see your point.
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Yeah, I get it. I generally like the team-centric episodes better too, or at least where we get development of some permutation of the team (Steve/Danny, Danny/Kono, etc.).
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I know what you mean about the badges (Danny's dick wears a badge, fandom always says :) they're pretty front and centre. It was clear they wanted to slip this line in, which is fine but could have been a bit more subtle.
I watch for the character stuff, even if it's a procedural, so development eps will always be a favourite :)
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Yes, this is what bothers me. "Their property" is a good way of putting it!
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