I'm an Occultist .
Ok.. I got this in an email and its done really well..points out a lot of the issues that can arise..
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/06/10-obstacles-to-sane-spirituality---part-two/
HOWEVER
it needs to make it 11 obstacles and include 'Always Assumes Everything is Internal" to the list. It's the current fad to convert all of the occult to an internal personal transformation tool.. and though I do feel that there is a significant amount of Work that takes placs on a purely inner and self-developmental level. I believe that there is MUCH MUCH more to it than that. Spirits ..though I can't say for sure what they are or how they arose.. exist in a state independent from my mind. The occult world actually exists.. and people study it and its not all about one's own psyche.
I can believe that and I can be 'spiritually sane'.
It was a timely post because I've encountered a transhumanist athiest rationalist here at Shaolin Kung Fu School land in China. As often happens when I encounter these types.. they immediately think of me as long lost kin because I can reason and most of those ilk think rationality is in short supply in the universe.. but ultimately i end up revealing some sort of exerience-based belief that rational compells me to take a stance different then their experience-based belief (i.e. they've never had a mystical experience) and they end up in some moral crisis..like how could this sensible rational girl believe in things like that? I cant discount her because she speaks clearly about her experiences and takes a rational approach to understanding them but if i don't discount them my philosophical castle of card starts to sway. I usually lead these folk into the unknown by discussing the brain , personal transformation, and inquiry-based and mind/body integrated spiritual practices..as its fairly easy to help them logically step to a rationalist spirituality with ritual, music, etc. I do that regularly. On the other hand..I find it difficult to rationally take them somewhere that they haven't been, that I can't lead them to in the course of a conversation, and that they are biased against believing in the first place. I've yet to figure out this second step and its something I'm working on. i mean i can talk about my own fantastical experieness and my friends and pont out that i could not be a true rationalist without paying attention to the data in my life and the probabilities of those occurences but for all they know i can be making that shit up).. but often find myself wanting to grasp at pseudoscience to fill in the gap which i don't do because my understandig of things like physics is severely lacking and i can't espouse a theory that I can't fully understand and agree so I'm stuck with what i consider the only rationalist response. I can move buttons on the box but have no theories as to what is underneath it. It's frustrating. With Geeky Kung Fu guy, I haven't brought up my expeerience yet as i'm still working on whole brain theory stuff with him..one step at a time..just the first step usually takes awhile .. inevitability though we'll come to the fact that i have to step away from my brothers and sisters in the art that feel it is ALL internal as I think that belief is ultimately inaccurate and misleading. I don't have another theory to offer but I've participated in and witnessed enough in my life to discount the theory completely unless I am God and have control over all aspects of manifest existence..in which ase it could 'all be in my head' but that seems statistically, intuitively, and rationally unlikely and is not a theory i am pursuing at this time.
The universe is far more mysterious and interesting.
I've been the solo rationalist-occultist talking to a rationalist twice in the space of a week. Representin' I need to get my 2nd step rationalist argument for the paranormal and ocult side of hte occult.. For those of you that do believe in an external paranormal world.. how do you engage with extreme rationalists about it? I end up just wanting to stare at them raise my hands, wiggle my fingers and say.. I've seen many things young padawan.
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/06/10-obstacles-to-sane-spirituality---part-two/
HOWEVER
it needs to make it 11 obstacles and include 'Always Assumes Everything is Internal" to the list. It's the current fad to convert all of the occult to an internal personal transformation tool.. and though I do feel that there is a significant amount of Work that takes placs on a purely inner and self-developmental level. I believe that there is MUCH MUCH more to it than that. Spirits ..though I can't say for sure what they are or how they arose.. exist in a state independent from my mind. The occult world actually exists.. and people study it and its not all about one's own psyche.
I can believe that and I can be 'spiritually sane'.
It was a timely post because I've encountered a transhumanist athiest rationalist here at Shaolin Kung Fu School land in China. As often happens when I encounter these types.. they immediately think of me as long lost kin because I can reason and most of those ilk think rationality is in short supply in the universe.. but ultimately i end up revealing some sort of exerience-based belief that rational compells me to take a stance different then their experience-based belief (i.e. they've never had a mystical experience) and they end up in some moral crisis..like how could this sensible rational girl believe in things like that? I cant discount her because she speaks clearly about her experiences and takes a rational approach to understanding them but if i don't discount them my philosophical castle of card starts to sway. I usually lead these folk into the unknown by discussing the brain , personal transformation, and inquiry-based and mind/body integrated spiritual practices..as its fairly easy to help them logically step to a rationalist spirituality with ritual, music, etc. I do that regularly. On the other hand..I find it difficult to rationally take them somewhere that they haven't been, that I can't lead them to in the course of a conversation, and that they are biased against believing in the first place. I've yet to figure out this second step and its something I'm working on. i mean i can talk about my own fantastical experieness and my friends and pont out that i could not be a true rationalist without paying attention to the data in my life and the probabilities of those occurences but for all they know i can be making that shit up).. but often find myself wanting to grasp at pseudoscience to fill in the gap which i don't do because my understandig of things like physics is severely lacking and i can't espouse a theory that I can't fully understand and agree so I'm stuck with what i consider the only rationalist response. I can move buttons on the box but have no theories as to what is underneath it. It's frustrating. With Geeky Kung Fu guy, I haven't brought up my expeerience yet as i'm still working on whole brain theory stuff with him..one step at a time..just the first step usually takes awhile .. inevitability though we'll come to the fact that i have to step away from my brothers and sisters in the art that feel it is ALL internal as I think that belief is ultimately inaccurate and misleading. I don't have another theory to offer but I've participated in and witnessed enough in my life to discount the theory completely unless I am God and have control over all aspects of manifest existence..in which ase it could 'all be in my head' but that seems statistically, intuitively, and rationally unlikely and is not a theory i am pursuing at this time.
The universe is far more mysterious and interesting.
I've been the solo rationalist-occultist talking to a rationalist twice in the space of a week. Representin' I need to get my 2nd step rationalist argument for the paranormal and ocult side of hte occult.. For those of you that do believe in an external paranormal world.. how do you engage with extreme rationalists about it? I end up just wanting to stare at them raise my hands, wiggle my fingers and say.. I've seen many things young padawan.