Why I'm vegan

[megglemuffin]

I took offense to people posting comments about how being vegan due to land use issues is "lame," so I am posting this so people might see that there are people out there who are vegan not only for the animals.

First off, I was raised Catholic. While I no longer believe in the traditional sense of the word, Catholic social teaching has played a huge

Comments

[bitspike]

First of all, thanks for a great post! I understand exactly what you're saying and the arguments over this tend to get a little frustrating and counter-productive. However, I do think there is an inherent problem with the 'vegan for environmental reasons' label.

If a person is deciding how to act and basing it solely on how they feel it affects the environment, then this can potentially lead them to the consumption of animal products in certain situations. (For example, 'freeganism' and other situations where consumption/use of these products will make no difference to the environment.) In my opinion, logically, if a person has an interest only in the environment, it does not follow that their actions will be in accord with those of a 'vegan'.

It seems to me that, by your last main paragraph, there is a strong desire not to do bad things to animals as well as your wish not to do unnecessary harm to the environment. Even though the environment is a major factor in constructing your choices, you also do care about how your actions immediately affect individual beings. I would think that all 'environmentalist vegans' would need this extra sense of compassion towards animals for their actions to be consistent with veganism, and it is this compassion which, I feel, defines a vegan rather than the initial environmental concern.

Well, that is my usual, initial response to environmentalist vegans, but you've gotten me thinking about it a little more.

A concern for the environment is a concern for . . . well, everything. This could then mean that the concern for individual animals is an inherent part of a concern for the environment and therefore veganism can be a subsection of an environmentalist's view on the world, rather than two separate ideas coinciding and leading to 'vegan actions'.

However, it doesn't look to me as though this is what you are getting at, as you initially outline your concern for 'land use' issues. Am I wrong here?

I hope I'm not offending you in any way. I'm just very interested in the way different positive ideas or desires to improve the world interact with eachother.

I love how, once you realise how easy it is to change the world in one way, you feel empowered to do more in other ways.

[bucketofpuke]

I don't know if the OP is using the term 'land-use' like everyone here is thinking. I could be wrong, but one of the large reasons I am vegan is because of the destruction of natural habitat in the rain forests, Africa, and taking over the lands of indigenous peoples for the sake of food. Many people in Bolivia and Peru are not able to farm for themselves, build adequate housing using material from the forests, and their land is stolen from them.

Cattle ranches absolutely destroyed the American Bison population (so did over hunting for that matter), and it's true for so many other sources this very day. Run off from farms contaminates water, kills fish, creates pollution problems. Over fishing is destroying our seas. I am vegan for animal rights reasons, but largely and maybe more so on an environmental scale. Cattle ranches are patrolled for predators, and the population of wolves, tigers and other large animals have been hurt due to farming.

I love veganism because it spreads across such a broad spectrum, you can be vegan for health reasons, animal rights, environmental reasons, or because you just hate the taste of meat. When it comes down to it, what's the difference between why someone is vegan? Just because I am vegan more for environmental reasons, doesn't mean I'll be enticed to consume animal products. (I do eat freegan if I have no money for food, but never when it is just convenient.)

Some people view meat eating as a diet (Atkins), some people just do it because it's what they enjoy. The same policies adhere to veganism.

[bitspike]

"I am vegan for animal rights reasons, but largely and maybe more so on an environmental scale."

One of the main things I was getting at was that the OP seemed to have a similar stance; that there were animal rights concerns affecting their choices to some extent, even if the environmental concerns are usually/always the initial or main concern.

". . . you can be vegan for health reasons, animal rights, environmental reasons, or because you just hate the taste of meat."

Statements like this I disagree with. I just feel that if health or environmental reasons are your only concern, then room is made in your choices to act against what veganism is. To me, the only determining factor which is logically consistent with veganism (the intentional omission of consumption of all animal products where possible) is a concern for animal rights. Whether it is the primary cause or not, as long as it is strong enough.

I just can't agree that veganism is a diet. To me, it's like saying being an astronaut is a dietary choice because they restrict themselves to 'space food' (sorry, I know this is a bad analogy). There are factors which form these actions which are external to a desire to (not) eat specific things. This is one issue I think I'll have to say I disagree with you.

(These are just the debates I was trying to avoid. Food choices are very personal and it is easy to offend people by claiming you know more about their reasoning than they do - which is what my opinion probably sounds like.)

Having said all that, I am very interested in exploring the idea that there can be a solely environmental reason towards a vegan lifestyle. Do you know any vegans who are vegan only for this reason? I'd love to hear about how they form their choices.

In my original reply, I began to wonder whether a concern for animal rights could be seen as an inherent part of an environmental concern. Thinking about it more, this is sounding like a real possibility. Do you, personally, avoid certain animal products even when it has no direct effect on the environment? If so, why? Do you think 'sole environmentalists' (for lack of a better term) would/could reason similarly?

[bucketofpuke]

I used to get upset over people who were vegan just for diet reasons, but any vegan who is true to it is a vegan to me so I stopped worrying about it. As long as they make strides to better themselves and other people by talking to them about their diet, why they eat that way, then I see no problem with it. I don't give a crap if x amount of people have met a 'diet vegan' and consider all vegans 'diet vegans,' as long as it's sending a positive message about how terrible consumption of animals is, then it's not of my concern.

Veganism for environmental reasons effects everything from people to animals to water. It just encompasses a larger scheme, and I know at least three vegan people who are vegan for environmental reasons and environmental reasons alone. Animal rights plays it's fair part in their decision, but it's the overall way of treating the world that they have a problem with. Environmental vegans are looking at everything -- the sewage run off of farms, to over fishing, to cattle ranches causing global warming and harming wildlife in other areas of the world that we cannot see.

When I went vegan is was for animal rights, but over time I realized that most of my decisions to eat were based off of environmental reasons, so I researched and became aware of how horribly the dairy and meat industries are run throughout the world. Not only do I limit my consumption of animal products, I limit my consumption of other things -- I've built my own furniture with recycled material, don't run the air conditioning, have worked on a self sustaining farm and plan to eventually run my own.

I can't tell you why other environmental vegans are vegans, since everyone has their reasons. I don't understand why people are getting so weird about people who are strict, passionate vegans but whose first reasoning isn't animal rights. When it comes down to it, does it really matter?

[tin_foil_hat]

I know at least three vegan people who are vegan for environmental reasons and environmental reasons alone. Animal rights plays it's fair part in their decision

Does not compute.

Clearly they are not doing it solely for the environmental reasons, it is just their main reason, as animal right is my main reason with environment and health etc. backing it up.

[bucketofpuke]

Do you, personally, avoid certain animal products even when it has no direct effect on the environment? If so, why?

I do avoid using them, because I'm vegan. I also don't use products testing on animals, or support companies that directly support dairy/meat industries or companies that test on animals.

[megglemuffin]

"A concern for the environment is a concern for . . . well, everything. This could then mean that the concern for individual animals is an inherent part of a concern for the environment and therefore veganism can be a subsection of an environmentalist's view on the world, rather than two separate ideas coinciding and leading to 'vegan actions'."

^ That's pretty much what I was trying to get at. My initial concern was a very broad environmental concern- that veganism would be best for EVERYthing/ everyone.

And I'm not at all offended. I like that you can respect my view yet have a differing opinion. Very eloquently stated, I might add! :)