I wouldn't have any problem using those eggs, nor would I have any (ethical) problem eating the chickens themselves. Likewise, I would drink milk from a cow if it were kept in similar conditions. As far I can tell, the relationships to the animals are symbiotic and because the farms are on such a small scale, I can't make a big argument for the environmental repurcussions.
I think veganism is a pretty privileged lifestyle choice, and is mostly relevant to developed nations. I can't point fingers at truly systainable and cruelty-free uses of animals. I would eat eggs and drink milk if I could meet the chicken or cow they came from, but as an American who gets everyhting at a grocery store, I stick with avoiding those things.
I think veganism is a pretty privileged lifestyle choice, and is mostly relevant to developed nations.
I used to think that too, but that's only because I only know privledged vegans.
In some places it may not be feasible currently to be vegan. I can acknowledge that, but I think it's harmful to think ONLY people of priveledge can be vegans. Most vegan foods are inexpensive, it's just a matter of whether or not the land available can grow the necessary food.
Think about all the vegetarians in India. Sure they aren't vegan. But could they get by relatively well with out milk and/or eggs. My guess would be yes, though I'm not sure.
Yeah, when you think about it, basic vegan food is cheap and more efficient to produce. In land deserts veganism could be impractical, but in many places it's just a poor man's diet.
As far I can tell, the relationships to the animals are symbiotic...
symbiosis tends to imply a cooperative relationship. i don't see the cooperation between a farm animal and the farmer. considering both my parents grew up on farms in europe and i've spent time on those family farms, i think i have some idea.
and as much as i love to debate folks on issues of class and privilege, even i don't assume everyone lives like i do. some vegans (myself included) actually grow a fair amount of the vegetables they eat, bake their own bread, and know the people personally who supply any of the incidentals they cannot supply themselves. the fact that i know and love one of my farmer friends doesn't change the fact that i don't view the animals on her farm as food. they are sentient beings.
1) I've grown up around family farms myself; If the animals aren't being harmed and are being provided with adequate space/food/shelter/ I don't see what the problem is. However, I understand that many vegans do not agree that animals should ever be domesticated, so I can respect that, and it's possible I'll change my mind about it later on.
2) and as much as i love to debate folks on issues of class and privilege, even i don't assume everyone lives like i do. - Was I?
I was thinking it would be pretty impossible to be vegan if one, for example, doesn't live near a grocery store and must buy most of their food from a gas station or a convenience store, or who must do all of their cooking out the microwave. Cheap, processed food is going to have tons of preservatives and usually isn't vegan or even healthy. So...I'm not sure what you mean - I'm not assuming everyone has access to a co-op, but I also can't assume that everyone regardless of class and privilege could be vegan either.
If being raised for milk, it will have to essentially nurse and nurse and nurse. That's not comfortable, and can cause infections.
If it's being raised for eggs, where are the males chicks going when the females to lay eggs are being bred for? And again, using the females body to produce food for me, means that any side effects the chicken has from using her energy to produce eggs would be a harm.
Also processed food isn't exactly cheap. Beans, rice, and pasta are pretty freakin cheap. There is a "food ghetto" problem in the us where poor areas often don't have good groceries and worse yet the lower quality groceries cost more than they do in a similar store in a priveledged neighborhood. I still don't know what that has to do with being vegan. The bare necesacities of vegan eating are comparable if not cheaper than junk processed food.
Yeah, that's why the farm in my head is pretty hypothetical/uncommon - I'm uncomfortable with breeding and whatnot. I wouldn't have any ethical qualms about it.
[I guess I want to mention that I wouldn't drink it anyway because I think it's weird for humans to drink milk that comes from other animals]
I think veganism is a pretty privileged lifestyle choice, and is mostly relevant to developed nations. I can't point fingers at truly systainable and cruelty-free uses of animals. I would eat eggs and drink milk if I could meet the chicken or cow they came from, but as an American who gets everyhting at a grocery store, I stick with avoiding those things.
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I can see where you're coming from, but I do disagree. I don't want to eat the flesh of another being.
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I used to think that too, but that's only because I only know privledged vegans.
In some places it may not be feasible currently to be vegan. I can acknowledge that, but I think it's harmful to think ONLY people of priveledge can be vegans. Most vegan foods are inexpensive, it's just a matter of whether or not the land available can grow the necessary food.
Think about all the vegetarians in India. Sure they aren't vegan. But could they get by relatively well with out milk and/or eggs. My guess would be yes, though I'm not sure.
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symbiosis tends to imply a cooperative relationship. i don't see the cooperation between a farm animal and the farmer. considering both my parents grew up on farms in europe and i've spent time on those family farms, i think i have some idea.
and as much as i love to debate folks on issues of class and privilege, even i don't assume everyone lives like i do. some vegans (myself included) actually grow a fair amount of the vegetables they eat, bake their own bread, and know the people personally who supply any of the incidentals they cannot supply themselves. the fact that i know and love one of my farmer friends doesn't change the fact that i don't view the animals on her farm as food. they are sentient beings.
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1) I've grown up around family farms myself; If the animals aren't being harmed and are being provided with adequate space/food/shelter/ I don't see what the problem is. However, I understand that many vegans do not agree that animals should ever be domesticated, so I can respect that, and it's possible I'll change my mind about it later on.
2) and as much as i love to debate folks on issues of class and privilege, even i don't assume everyone lives like i do. - Was I?
I was thinking it would be pretty impossible to be vegan if one, for example, doesn't live near a grocery store and must buy most of their food from a gas station or a convenience store, or who must do all of their cooking out the microwave. Cheap, processed food is going to have tons of preservatives and usually isn't vegan or even healthy. So...I'm not sure what you mean - I'm not assuming everyone has access to a co-op, but I also can't assume that everyone regardless of class and privilege could be vegan either.
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If being raised for food, it will be slaughtered.
If being raised for milk, it will have to essentially nurse and nurse and nurse. That's not comfortable, and can cause infections.
If it's being raised for eggs, where are the males chicks going when the females to lay eggs are being bred for? And again, using the females body to produce food for me, means that any side effects the chicken has from using her energy to produce eggs would be a harm.
Also processed food isn't exactly cheap. Beans, rice, and pasta are pretty freakin cheap. There is a "food ghetto" problem in the us where poor areas often don't have good groceries and worse yet the lower quality groceries cost more than they do in a similar store in a priveledged neighborhood. I still don't know what that has to do with being vegan. The bare necesacities of vegan eating are comparable if not cheaper than junk processed food.
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[I guess I want to mention that I wouldn't drink it anyway because I think it's weird for humans to drink milk that comes from other animals]
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