Bob Linden: "Honey is not vegan!"
Bob Linden sent me a friendly email to say that he doesn't feel honey's vegan, and to correct the notion that PureFit was a sponsor - it seems likely that they advertised their "vegan" bars, which may be where I saw it on the site. Or I may have had a Senior Moment. Either way, apologies on that one. Here's the correspondence:
Dear Mr Linden
I am writing to you regarding a complaint I made to one of your sponsors, PureFit, about labelling its chocolate brownie bar "vegan". I realise that there are vegans who consume honey (my husband is one), though they know that it is technically not vegan, and that's absolutely fine. My concern was that many vegans would see the label
and, reasonably enough, assume that the bar contained no honey, and then be rather upset when they read the ingredients. Someone else emailed PureFit to explain that honey is not vegan, and received in reply an email from Mr Dorf that he simply couldn't decipher. He posted this email in an online forum, asking if anyone else understood
it, and 28 people responded that it was incomprehensible. I took it upon myself to email Mr Dorf to explain that his email was hard to understand, and to explain that the label was misleading. I recieved a rather rude reply, to which I responded that it was Mr Dorf's attitude more than the labelling issue that had lost him a customer.
I have since received email from him accusing me of making false claims about veganism, his company, and his products and saying that this "defamation of character is civilly actionable" and calling me "ignorant".
Unfortunately, I am not alone.
Apparently, others who read Mr Dorf's original reply to the complaint received abusive emails in reply, and in all of them, he cites you as his source for the idea that honey is vegan and roundly condemns those of us who disagree as ignorant about veganism and making false claims. In fact, in one email, he wrote:
""You vegas are sure angry. Maybe a few animal products, errrrrrrrr insects, would calm you down. Also, please send this same response to all your ignorant buddies who have wasted my time this week.
If you truly believe you know more about the definition and meaning of the word "vegan" than a nationally syndicated talk show host, I suggest you contact Bob and call him a liar. "
Several people have pointed out that they're going from the Vegan Society's definition, and one person called, only to be hung up on.
This being the age of online communities, they posted their replies and experiences to the online community where the first email was posted, and a lot of people are astonished by Mr Dorf's attitude to customer relations, feelin that not only has he insulted individuals,
but that he is being extremely disrespectful to vegans as a whole. One buyer for a health food store has declared that her store will never carry any PureFit products; another has contacted PETA, who have, apparently, assigned a case worker to the situation.
This email is not by way of berating you for your stance that honey is vegan, or to defame Mr Dorf or his company, but to explain why I feel that PureFit is not a vegan-friendly company. I believe that you have the right to know how your sponsors treat their customers, as it
reflects on your programme. Again, I want to emphasise that I have no axe to grind, not knowing Mr Dorf personally. All I have to go on is the email exchange between us, and the emails I have seen that he sent
to other people. I'm sure Mr Dorf is perfectly charming in person, and I have thought long and hard about contacting you on this matter, but I believe that it is incumbent on me to make you aware of the situation, to be dealt with or not entirely at your own discretion.
Sincerely
Hi
To me, honey is NOT vegan, and I am in total bewilderment as to why anyone would think my position to be otherwise. I have NEVER claimed honey to be vegan. "Honey is not vegan!" There, I said it again, and that is the accurate quote from whom I believe is the nationally-syndicated talk show host referenced in your email. I'm not 100% sure of that because PureFit is not, nor has it ever been a sponsor or advertiser on GO VEGAN WITH BOB LINDEN. If it were, it would be limited to advertising only VEGAN products on my radio show. Products that contain ANY animal ingredients (or that have been tested on animals) may NOT be advertised, and THAT INCLUDES HONEY!
I certainly hope that you might clarify my position to those with whom you have communicated on this issue. I personally am as repulsed by the thought of bee vomit on my plate as I am by a glass of trans-species mammary
secretions.
Thanks!
For the bees,
BOB LINDEN
www.GoVeganRadio.com
I replied with my thanks, and I'm going to ask if I can forward this to Mr Dorf. Just in case he genuinely had a problem understanding Mr Linden.
Dear Mr Linden
I am writing to you regarding a complaint I made to one of your sponsors, PureFit, about labelling its chocolate brownie bar "vegan". I realise that there are vegans who consume honey (my husband is one), though they know that it is technically not vegan, and that's absolutely fine. My concern was that many vegans would see the label
and, reasonably enough, assume that the bar contained no honey, and then be rather upset when they read the ingredients. Someone else emailed PureFit to explain that honey is not vegan, and received in reply an email from Mr Dorf that he simply couldn't decipher. He posted this email in an online forum, asking if anyone else understood
it, and 28 people responded that it was incomprehensible. I took it upon myself to email Mr Dorf to explain that his email was hard to understand, and to explain that the label was misleading. I recieved a rather rude reply, to which I responded that it was Mr Dorf's attitude more than the labelling issue that had lost him a customer.
I have since received email from him accusing me of making false claims about veganism, his company, and his products and saying that this "defamation of character is civilly actionable" and calling me "ignorant".
Unfortunately, I am not alone.
Apparently, others who read Mr Dorf's original reply to the complaint received abusive emails in reply, and in all of them, he cites you as his source for the idea that honey is vegan and roundly condemns those of us who disagree as ignorant about veganism and making false claims. In fact, in one email, he wrote:
""You vegas are sure angry. Maybe a few animal products, errrrrrrrr insects, would calm you down. Also, please send this same response to all your ignorant buddies who have wasted my time this week.
If you truly believe you know more about the definition and meaning of the word "vegan" than a nationally syndicated talk show host, I suggest you contact Bob and call him a liar. "
Several people have pointed out that they're going from the Vegan Society's definition, and one person called, only to be hung up on.
This being the age of online communities, they posted their replies and experiences to the online community where the first email was posted, and a lot of people are astonished by Mr Dorf's attitude to customer relations, feelin that not only has he insulted individuals,
but that he is being extremely disrespectful to vegans as a whole. One buyer for a health food store has declared that her store will never carry any PureFit products; another has contacted PETA, who have, apparently, assigned a case worker to the situation.
This email is not by way of berating you for your stance that honey is vegan, or to defame Mr Dorf or his company, but to explain why I feel that PureFit is not a vegan-friendly company. I believe that you have the right to know how your sponsors treat their customers, as it
reflects on your programme. Again, I want to emphasise that I have no axe to grind, not knowing Mr Dorf personally. All I have to go on is the email exchange between us, and the emails I have seen that he sent
to other people. I'm sure Mr Dorf is perfectly charming in person, and I have thought long and hard about contacting you on this matter, but I believe that it is incumbent on me to make you aware of the situation, to be dealt with or not entirely at your own discretion.
Sincerely
Hi
To me, honey is NOT vegan, and I am in total bewilderment as to why anyone would think my position to be otherwise. I have NEVER claimed honey to be vegan. "Honey is not vegan!" There, I said it again, and that is the accurate quote from whom I believe is the nationally-syndicated talk show host referenced in your email. I'm not 100% sure of that because PureFit is not, nor has it ever been a sponsor or advertiser on GO VEGAN WITH BOB LINDEN. If it were, it would be limited to advertising only VEGAN products on my radio show. Products that contain ANY animal ingredients (or that have been tested on animals) may NOT be advertised, and THAT INCLUDES HONEY!
I certainly hope that you might clarify my position to those with whom you have communicated on this issue. I personally am as repulsed by the thought of bee vomit on my plate as I am by a glass of trans-species mammary
secretions.
Thanks!
For the bees,
BOB LINDEN
www.GoVeganRadio.com
I replied with my thanks, and I'm going to ask if I can forward this to Mr Dorf. Just in case he genuinely had a problem understanding Mr Linden.