it did not surprise me that this comment went over length pt 1svilleficrecsJanuary 15 2008, 21:30:18 UTC
I mean, it's easy for me to say "just think of it as any other story", but I've been writing stories with hardcore smut for years. And the thing to remember is, it's not (or it doesn't have to be) "A SEX SCENE" where the storyline stops and we go through a set pattern of arousal, plateau, climax, resolution, afterglow, and then the story starts again. The introduction of arousal or erections or hands-down-pants or dirty-butthole-pleasures doesn't automatically render the scene or the story this seperate, discrete (discreet?) entity. It's not flip the switch to dirty sex mode, now switch it back.
It's a set of characters, and you're choosing to focus your authorial camera on scenes or thoughts where there's arousal or sexual contact or orgasm or all three. Technically, craft wise, it shouldn't be any different from a scene where the two characters are playing catch or braiding each other's hair. Wincing or shying away (and where you wince and shy away) can reaveal your own squicks and kinks and prejudices as much if not more than when you try to take an honest look at how your pov character experiences the scene.
The more you can convince your inner prude (and we all have one to varying degrees) that you are not your POV character and no one (worth talking about) is going to assume you are, the easier it can be to let go of your own shame/issues/inner critic and really get into the mind of how character X experiences this particular sexual (or conversational, or playing catch) encounter, and what it means to them.
Of course your own turn ons are going to overlap with the turn ons of the characters and situations you choose (anyone who reads a lot of my smut can probably hazard a guess at a few of my kinks) but your own interests and issues are going to recur in whatever themes your return to. But you're not your stories, or your characters, and their choices aren't (necessarily) yours. And the more firmly you can believe that, ironically, the better control you're going to have over whether or not your prejudices, squicks and turn-ons are bleeding through into your porn.
It can be particularly hard with sexually explicit material, because most people's buttons are deeply set and sensitive there (or even unexplored), but the more you can do that ego-blanking and try to let go of thoughts of "What do I think is hot or too much or dirty? What am I afraid that people will think *I* enjoy?", the easier it gets to get in touch with "What would House or Rose or Xander's reaction to this situation be? What would their fears and desires and turn-ons be? What would they notices, what would they do, how would they react?"
And even in situations where you're starting from a place of, "Well, I want Ten to lick Rose's butthole because I think it would be hot?" doing that ego blanking and trying to figure out why Rose might think it was hot, or what situation might make that butthole licking possible or tension fraught or funny or believable for *her*, not you, will result in better smut that's more in character and less "well, obviously, someone has a butthole licking fetish." (cont'd)
longass comment, pt 2svilleficrecsJanuary 15 2008, 21:32:55 UTC
And the thing I figured out this year (yay, more unsolicited advice) is that a lot of times, when you think of something and get that knee jerk "OMG, that's too much, even for you, what are you THINKING, you can't have them do THAT" and want to back off... that wincing, "nice girls don't write about THOSE actions and emotions" reflex is flag of something powerfully interesting or emotional or real. Sometimes, your muse *is* just being silly and going too far (or trying to indulge your personal kink for being held down, or whatever, for the umpteenth time).
But whatever gives you that powerful reaction can often be wrestled (with some judicious, cold eyed editing) into something that gives your audience a powerful reaction.
And if that something turns me (and your audience) on, well... the thing is, again, you are not your story. It's not you, reaching through the ethernet cable and sticking your virtual hand down my pants and tickling my naughty bits, it's not you turning me on. It's your story. Something that you have an intimate relationship with for a time, and then I have an intimate relationship with, after you post it and release it into the world to do its thing.
It gets easier with practice, and yeah, there are always going to be people who assume unflattering things about you or your proclivities if you talk about sex at all, or show it onscreen in your stories. But they're douchey and we don't care about them! We care about the production of good, hot, in character porn!
And yeah, it does get easier with time. And it helps immensely that this community we both inhabit is all about positive feedback encouraging smut, and full of people who (like yourself, I'm sure) are far more concerned with whether you can effectively describe Fraser's reaction to a finger up the butt than whether you've ever had a finger up your butt, or whether you like it (at least in the context of your smutty story.)
short addendumsvilleficrecsJanuary 15 2008, 21:56:58 UTC
That being said, some betas are fine with sexually explicit content and some aren't, and I find it's best to just be upfront and be like, "This has some dirty bits, I want to make sure you're comfortable with that before I send it to you. No, really, they're quite dirty."
Well, actually, most anyone who knows my stuff knows I get really filthy, but I have had more than one beta get half-way through a story and be like, "Sorry, I can't, this subject matter makes me uncomfortable." And I don't judge them for that, we've all got our limits. And hopefully, they don't judge me for having gone there.
I'm sure some people do. There are plenty of people who look at anything sexually explicit and it's like they get blinders on, all they can see is "THERE ARE WET PUSSIES HERE, OMG THIS IS A SMUTTY PART, SKIM SKIM SKIM" or "YAY SMUT! I was wondering when she'd hit that." But again, you can't control their personal hot spots, you can only control the words on the page and try to get them as honest and real and hot and good as possible, for the story you're interested in telling.
But in the end arousal and/or outrage aren't the only two purposes served by sexually explicit material, and they're two of the least controllable (on account of people's personal kinks and squicks). The most interesting purpose, IMHO, is that in sex - in the way they perform and use and desire and repress and react to sex - character is revealed. Sex can be a problem or a solution or a beginning or an end or a weird interlude. It can be foreplay-penetrative intercourse-orgasm, fantasy, UST, you can focus on the beginning, middle, end, aftermath. You can have the first or the hundredth fuck or wank or lustful stare.
You can have your character aware of their desire or not, and the self-delusion people have about sex, the conflict or schism between what they want, what they want to want, what they say they want, and what they actually do... that, to me, is where the hottest stuff lies, not in accurately describing the tab a/slot b action.
The only additional caveat about sex scenes is that you've got limb/mouth/body logistics issues that you don't tend to have in other scenes. And after (or before) you go through and worry about motivation/hotness/etc, you need a *totally* cold eyed read to make sure all your pronoun antecedents make sense, and that you haven't given the impression that she has three arms, or that he's licking her toes and her neck simultaneously. There's a fine line between making the action as clear as necessary and writing a boring litany of sexual choreography cataloguing every single lick and repositioning of the hands.
That shit is hard. Knowing when to focus on this touch, and gloss over an indeterminate period of "and then he fucked her into the mattress for about five minutes, but we don't need to go into each of the 132 strokes he made". But it's also something best fixed in edits, once *you* have a clear idea of who puts what where and squirts when. At that point, you can makes sure you've made it clear to the reader.
God, I'm going to shut up now. Sorry about the comment hijacking, I just (obviously) have a lot of opinions on the subject.
Re: short addendumvaudevillesJanuary 16 2008, 20:15:20 UTC
I've been flailing a little to try and answer this. Mostly because it was exactly what I needed to hear and fantastic advice (especially coming from someone whose writing I *do* find terrifically hot).
This has been an interesting challenge for me. As someone who considers themselves sex positive and open (but new to writing) I've found it relatively easy to write sex as a part of the longer plot-oriented stories that I've written. Probably because I can subsume any angst about over-identification and putting my kinks on display by trying to make things as canon or in character as possible.
And then I try to write something where the SEX, not the plot, or the journey of the characters or the emotional connection between the characters is the focus. And it's confronting. Of course there are small elements of plot and there is a journey for the characters (from go to WOAH I guess ;o) and the emotional connection is still vital in order for me to find it hot. But I'm trying to write smut, pure and simple. And therefore I have to find it arousing. Which means I feel much more exposed.
And I have sent the story to beta, mostly because, as a kinesthetic and auditory person I have no visual imagination whatsoever, so I need to make sure that everyone has only the number of limbs they are supposed to and that nobody has taken on a temporary career as a contortionist. So I'm trying to balance realistic(ish) physical description with sensory evocation.
And your advice really did help me become more aware of what my issues were around posting pure porn. So thank you. I'm hoping to post the story in the next few days and if you have time I'd love a completely fresh eye critique from someone not in the fandom, and if not, no worries - I'm totally grateful for the deeper level of awareness you've helped me attain.
It's a set of characters, and you're choosing to focus your authorial camera on scenes or thoughts where there's arousal or sexual contact or orgasm or all three. Technically, craft wise, it shouldn't be any different from a scene where the two characters are playing catch or braiding each other's hair. Wincing or shying away (and where you wince and shy away) can reaveal your own squicks and kinks and prejudices as much if not more than when you try to take an honest look at how your pov character experiences the scene.
The more you can convince your inner prude (and we all have one to varying degrees) that you are not your POV character and no one (worth talking about) is going to assume you are, the easier it can be to let go of your own shame/issues/inner critic and really get into the mind of how character X experiences this particular sexual (or conversational, or playing catch) encounter, and what it means to them.
Of course your own turn ons are going to overlap with the turn ons of the characters and situations you choose (anyone who reads a lot of my smut can probably hazard a guess at a few of my kinks) but your own interests and issues are going to recur in whatever themes your return to. But you're not your stories, or your characters, and their choices aren't (necessarily) yours. And the more firmly you can believe that, ironically, the better control you're going to have over whether or not your prejudices, squicks and turn-ons are bleeding through into your porn.
It can be particularly hard with sexually explicit material, because most people's buttons are deeply set and sensitive there (or even unexplored), but the more you can do that ego-blanking and try to let go of thoughts of "What do I think is hot or too much or dirty? What am I afraid that people will think *I* enjoy?", the easier it gets to get in touch with "What would House or Rose or Xander's reaction to this situation be? What would their fears and desires and turn-ons be? What would they notices, what would they do, how would they react?"
And even in situations where you're starting from a place of, "Well, I want Ten to lick Rose's butthole because I think it would be hot?" doing that ego blanking and trying to figure out why Rose might think it was hot, or what situation might make that butthole licking possible or tension fraught or funny or believable for *her*, not you, will result in better smut that's more in character and less "well, obviously, someone has a butthole licking fetish."
(cont'd)
Reply
And the thing I figured out this year (yay, more unsolicited advice) is that a lot of times, when you think of something and get that knee jerk "OMG, that's too much, even for you, what are you THINKING, you can't have them do THAT" and want to back off... that wincing, "nice girls don't write about THOSE actions and emotions" reflex is flag of something powerfully interesting or emotional or real. Sometimes, your muse *is* just being silly and going too far (or trying to indulge your personal kink for being held down, or whatever, for the umpteenth time).
But whatever gives you that powerful reaction can often be wrestled (with some judicious, cold eyed editing) into something that gives your audience a powerful reaction.
And if that something turns me (and your audience) on, well... the thing is, again, you are not your story. It's not you, reaching through the ethernet cable and sticking your virtual hand down my pants and tickling my naughty bits, it's not you turning me on. It's your story. Something that you have an intimate relationship with for a time, and then I have an intimate relationship with, after you post it and release it into the world to do its thing.
It gets easier with practice, and yeah, there are always going to be people who assume unflattering things about you or your proclivities if you talk about sex at all, or show it onscreen in your stories. But they're douchey and we don't care about them! We care about the production of good, hot, in character porn!
And yeah, it does get easier with time. And it helps immensely that this community we both inhabit is all about positive feedback encouraging smut, and full of people who (like yourself, I'm sure) are far more concerned with whether you can effectively describe Fraser's reaction to a finger up the butt than whether you've ever had a finger up your butt, or whether you like it (at least in the context of your smutty story.)
Good luck! God speed!
Reply
Well, actually, most anyone who knows my stuff knows I get really filthy, but I have had more than one beta get half-way through a story and be like, "Sorry, I can't, this subject matter makes me uncomfortable." And I don't judge them for that, we've all got our limits. And hopefully, they don't judge me for having gone there.
I'm sure some people do. There are plenty of people who look at anything sexually explicit and it's like they get blinders on, all they can see is "THERE ARE WET PUSSIES HERE, OMG THIS IS A SMUTTY PART, SKIM SKIM SKIM" or "YAY SMUT! I was wondering when she'd hit that." But again, you can't control their personal hot spots, you can only control the words on the page and try to get them as honest and real and hot and good as possible, for the story you're interested in telling.
But in the end arousal and/or outrage aren't the only two purposes served by sexually explicit material, and they're two of the least controllable (on account of people's personal kinks and squicks). The most interesting purpose, IMHO, is that in sex - in the way they perform and use and desire and repress and react to sex - character is revealed. Sex can be a problem or a solution or a beginning or an end or a weird interlude. It can be foreplay-penetrative intercourse-orgasm, fantasy, UST, you can focus on the beginning, middle, end, aftermath. You can have the first or the hundredth fuck or wank or lustful stare.
You can have your character aware of their desire or not, and the self-delusion people have about sex, the conflict or schism between what they want, what they want to want, what they say they want, and what they actually do... that, to me, is where the hottest stuff lies, not in accurately describing the tab a/slot b action.
The only additional caveat about sex scenes is that you've got limb/mouth/body logistics issues that you don't tend to have in other scenes. And after (or before) you go through and worry about motivation/hotness/etc, you need a *totally* cold eyed read to make sure all your pronoun antecedents make sense, and that you haven't given the impression that she has three arms, or that he's licking her toes and her neck simultaneously. There's a fine line between making the action as clear as necessary and writing a boring litany of sexual choreography cataloguing every single lick and repositioning of the hands.
That shit is hard. Knowing when to focus on this touch, and gloss over an indeterminate period of "and then he fucked her into the mattress for about five minutes, but we don't need to go into each of the 132 strokes he made". But it's also something best fixed in edits, once *you* have a clear idea of who puts what where and squirts when. At that point, you can makes sure you've made it clear to the reader.
God, I'm going to shut up now. Sorry about the comment hijacking, I just (obviously) have a lot of opinions on the subject.
Reply
This has been an interesting challenge for me. As someone who considers themselves sex positive and open (but new to writing) I've found it relatively easy to write sex as a part of the longer plot-oriented stories that I've written. Probably because I can subsume any angst about over-identification and putting my kinks on display by trying to make things as canon or in character as possible.
And then I try to write something where the SEX, not the plot, or the journey of the characters or the emotional connection between the characters is the focus. And it's confronting. Of course there are small elements of plot and there is a journey for the characters (from go to WOAH I guess ;o) and the emotional connection is still vital in order for me to find it hot. But I'm trying to write smut, pure and simple. And therefore I have to find it arousing. Which means I feel much more exposed.
And I have sent the story to beta, mostly because, as a kinesthetic and auditory person I have no visual imagination whatsoever, so I need to make sure that everyone has only the number of limbs they are supposed to and that nobody has taken on a temporary career as a contortionist. So I'm trying to balance realistic(ish) physical description with sensory evocation.
And your advice really did help me become more aware of what my issues were around posting pure porn. So thank you. I'm hoping to post the story in the next few days and if you have time I'd love a completely fresh eye critique from someone not in the fandom, and if not, no worries - I'm totally grateful for the deeper level of awareness you've helped me attain.
Reply
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