From disasters in New Orleans to the meaning of history
[22:53] Sir_VanTC: hm the human errors are nothing compared to the heroics
[22:53] Sir_VanTC: but you dont hear those
[22:55] Ranoch: well, a death because of human error is worse for me, than a human saved by human heroics is good, I think
[22:55] Sir_VanTC: it doesnt compare
[22:55] Sir_VanTC: there is just two sides
[22:55] Ranoch: no amount of heroics will undo the death done
[22:55] Sir_VanTC: and eventually the guys who fucked up (GWB?) will get their butts kicked
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: exactly but that doesn make the death done worse
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: it is simply incomparable
[22:56] Ranoch: well, it could have been avoided, thats the bad part
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: could it?
[22:56] Ranoch: sure it could
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: if ppl would have thought other wise yes
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: but they didnt
[22:56] Ranoch: if people didnt fuck up, you mean ;)
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: ppl everywhere felt invincible
[22:57] Sir_VanTC: no its a way of thinking
[22:57] Sir_VanTC: if you believe you are invincible rich and can handle a bit of storm and some flooding easily
[22:57] Sir_VanTC: I mean like us today her in Holland
[22:57] Ranoch: if you have to let people die in the streets in the US because of a lack of food an medicine, someone fucked up royally
[22:57] Sir_VanTC: I believe we can handle any storm easily
[22:58] Sir_VanTC: sure butthat is not "someone"
[22:58] Sir_VanTC: it is everyone because society believes it
[22:58] Sir_VanTC: of course somebody is responsible
[22:58] Sir_VanTC: and you can pounish him/her
[22:58] Sir_VanTC: and decisions could have been handled better
[22:59] Sir_VanTC: but eventually it all comes down to simply not believing the reality
[22:59] Sir_VanTC: western society is the strongest
[22:59] Sir_VanTC: and nothing can destroy it
[23:00] Sir_VanTC: its actually ignorance that killed most ppl not Katerina
[23:00] Ranoch: sure, but I dont believe any country would do worse
[23:00] Sir_VanTC: and not ignorance in a bad way, but simply ignorance
[23:00] Ranoch: western country, that is
[23:00] Sir_VanTC: I cant say that
[23:01] Ranoch: well, if I see the reactions of england and spain after the bombings, I get a pretty decent picture
[23:01] Sir_VanTC: because it did not hit any other country under these cricumstances
[23:01] Ranoch: or the dutch reaction after the fireworks disaster
[23:01] Sir_VanTC: the problem with history is always that ppl start comparing
[23:01] Sir_VanTC: but you cant
[23:02] Sir_VanTC: every situation is so unique that we can hardly say that we would have handled it better (of course we would)
[23:02] Ranoch: only way to learn from unique situations is drawing comparisons, learning by analogy
[23:02] Sir_VanTC: ah... but can you learn from history?
[23:02] Ranoch: yes
[23:02] Sir_VanTC: is that what history is for?
[23:02] Ranoch: yes, again :)
[23:03] Ranoch: history is the sum of human at its highest and lowest
[23:03] Sir_VanTC: my answers would be "maybe a bit" and "no"
[23:03] Sir_VanTC: history essentially doesnt have a purpose other than what we give it
[23:03] Ranoch: history is doomed to repeat itself until we are willing to learn from mistakes made by others before us
[23:03] Sir_VanTC: no it doesnt
[23:04] Sir_VanTC: it doesnt repeat it self
[23:04] Sir_VanTC: it cant
[23:04] Ranoch: it repeats itself continually
[23:04] Ranoch: only always in different details
[23:04] Sir_VanTC: but arent it the details that form history
[23:04] Sir_VanTC: ?
[23:04] Ranoch: no, because there is also the core of things
[23:05] Sir_VanTC: I really dont believe in a core of things
[23:05] Ranoch: the psychology of mankind
[23:05] Sir_VanTC: history is the sum of actions
[23:05] Ranoch: the self preservation
[23:05] Ranoch: the vices and virtues
[23:05] Sir_VanTC: that would mean some kind of conscience
[23:05] Ranoch: sure
[23:06] Sir_VanTC: in my opinion history simply *is*
[23:06] Sir_VanTC: and whatever we do with it is the meaning of it
[23:06] Sir_VanTC: if you want to learn lessons
[23:06] Sir_VanTC: go ahead, if you want to prove your culture there it is
[23:07] Sir_VanTC: I mean history can teach you everything and can help you proof any claim
[23:08] Ranoch: for me the only reason of history is to learn from it, otherwise I could just as well read fiction
[23:08] Ranoch: and I must admit, from good fiction you can also learn lessons
[23:09] Sir_VanTC: ah yes...
[23:09] Sir_VanTC: but isnt there my point? for *you* the only reason is
[23:09] Ranoch: its a great point
[23:09] Sir_VanTC: but that is not *the* reason
[23:09] Ranoch: but if it works for me, it should have it in itself to (also) be such a reason
[23:09] Sir_VanTC: *the* reason does not exist
[23:10] Ranoch: only a sith deals in absolutes :P
[23:10] Sir_VanTC: lol
[23:10] Ranoch: and dont let my semantics prove that I mean absolutes
[23:10] Sir_VanTC: I really believe that
[23:10] Sir_VanTC: hehe
[23:10] Ranoch: when I say that *the* reason for me is learning, I dont mean it is the only valid reason :)
[23:10] Sir_VanTC: I really believe that we can learn much less lessons from history than most of us think/would like
[23:10] Ranoch: but it is the only valid one from my perspective, and for me personally
[23:11] Sir_VanTC: you see... learning inherently means judging. Was what he did good or bad?
[23:11] Ranoch: thats probably because it is not *the* reason in your perspective :P
[23:11] Sir_VanTC: touchee
[23:11] Sir_VanTC: and I dont believe that you can judge ppl in te past
[23:11] Ranoch: true
[23:12] Sir_VanTC: even though they did the most despicable things
[23:12] Ranoch: but I dont believe learning is always the same as judging
[23:12] Ranoch: I try to understand why people did the things they did
[23:12] Sir_VanTC: unjderstanding is something very different from learning
[23:12] Ranoch: and in order to do so, I must try to remain objective
[23:12] Ranoch: understanding comes after learning, I always think ")
[23:12] Sir_VanTC: absolutely
[23:13] Sir_VanTC: but that makes it something entirely different
[23:13] Ranoch: first I learn the "facts" and then I try to understand them
[23:13] Sir_VanTC: and my problem is that lots of things we cannot understand
[23:13] Ranoch: which usually leads me to the thought that the facts were not facts at all
[23:13] Ranoch: and I start over again
[23:13] Sir_VanTC: I cannot understand why Bush went to war in Iraq the way he did
[23:13] Ranoch: well, I can sortoff
[23:13] Sir_VanTC: and because I cannot understand I will not judge him
[23:14] Ranoch: but never completely
[23:14] Sir_VanTC: you can never ever understand ppl other than yourself in their entirety... ergo you should not judge him
[23:14] Sir_VanTC: them
[23:14] Ranoch: I even think that I would have done the same, if I had his circumstance
[23:15] Sir_VanTC: I mean if I would have been born in Vienna, failed in life, went to war, got blind, experienced cameraderie, got involved in an antisemitic environment..
[23:15] Sir_VanTC: exactly my point
[23:15] Ranoch: but judging is always taking a side
[23:15] Sir_VanTC: exactly
[23:16] Ranoch: there is no such thing as an objective judgement
[23:16] Sir_VanTC: exactly
[23:16] Ranoch: that doesnt mean that I never make judgments though
[23:16] Ranoch: I always try to judge what i should and should not do
[23:16] Sir_VanTC: of course... but these are your choices
[23:16] Ranoch: yup
[23:16] Sir_VanTC: choice is very different from judgement
[23:16] Ranoch: and some of them are strong enough to try to defend
[23:17] Sir_VanTC: absolutely
[23:17] Sir_VanTC: and sometimes strong enough to believe in
[23:17] Ranoch: but when I rant against bush and the war, it is semantics that make me judge bush, while in the end I only mean that I would not have made the same decision myself
[23:17] Sir_VanTC: sure I know that :)
[23:18] Sir_VanTC: but that set of believes, experiences and choices is what forms your history. Add that to 6 billion others
[23:18] Ranoch: it is, after all, tedious to include disclaimers into everything one says ;)
[23:18] Sir_VanTC: and you have the history of the world at this moment
[23:18] Ranoch: well, only the history of every living person now
[23:18] Ranoch: not of every dead person now
[23:18] Sir_VanTC: ergo... it was their choice, I cant understand hence I will not judge...
[23:18] Sir_VanTC: oif course
[23:18] Ranoch: so the history is ever so much bigger
[23:18] Sir_VanTC: yup
[23:19] Sir_VanTC: but that is why I really dont believe in learning from history
[23:19] Ranoch: and thats why I like history, it makes the lives of people who died ages ago meaningful in my life and thus the present
[23:19] Sir_VanTC: because it is never *your* choice so you can *never* tell why someone made it
[23:19] Ranoch: its a sort of immortality, maybe
[23:19] Sir_VanTC: absolutely true
[23:20] Ranoch: and the only thing I would try to undo in history, would be the loss of knowledge
[23:20] Ranoch: if I could undo something, that is
[23:20] Sir_VanTC: I wouldnt
[23:20] Sir_VanTC: my reason for studying history is to make it return in a way
[23:21] Sir_VanTC: to pick some voices from the past and let them talk again
[23:21] Sir_VanTC: so they wont be forgotten
[23:21] Ranoch: definately
[23:21] Sir_VanTC: you read my paper on the Jews in Rome?
[23:21] Ranoch: but more so, to let already forgotten voices re-discovered
[23:22] Sir_VanTC: yes I like the unknown, unmarked people better than the heroes and generals
[23:22] Sir_VanTC: I included an epitaph... lemme see if I can find it
[23:22] Ranoch: if I would ever be able to master linguistics and return a dead language to life enough to read the books from it, I think I will have reached the pinacle of what I would want
[23:23] Sir_VanTC: Hier ligt Regina, bedekt door deze tombe
die, om zijn liefde te tonen, door haar man werd gesticht.
twintig jaren plus één, vier maanden en acht dagen heeft ze in huwelijk naast hem geleefd.
Ze zal weer leven en het licht weer zien.
Want ze zal hopen op te stijgen
naar het eeuwige leven dat is beloofd,
zoals ons ware geloof leert, aan alle waardige
en vrome mensen. Ze heeft het verdiend
om een thuis te vinden in dat meest geheiligde land.
Dat is je verzekerd door je vroomheid,
je leven zo zuiver en je liefde voor alle mensen.
Naleving aan onze wet en trouw
aan je huwelijkse bond die je altijd hebt geprobeerd
mooier te maken. Voor dit alles
is je toekomstig geluk zeker. En in dit vertrouwen
vindt je treurende man zijn enige troost.
[23:23] Sir_VanTC: more than 2000 years old
[23:25] Ranoch: yeah, I read that :)
[23:25] Sir_VanTC: I felt very happy that I could take it from some dusty book in a library, written by someone who found the the grave and include it in my paper which will be read by ppl who would never have picked up the book or visited the original tomb
[23:25] Ranoch: it is indeed touching to see someone devotion after so long
[23:26] Ranoch: *someones devotion
[23:27] Sir_VanTC: it is a weird idea that you can quote some person's personal loss thousands of years later
[23:27] Sir_VanTC: somebody who would likely have felt an extreme loss and desolation. The same feelings I have witnessed with my grandmother
[23:27] Sir_VanTC: and grandfather
[23:28] Sir_VanTC: I mean as in the same
[23:28] Sir_VanTC: emotions dont change
[23:28] Ranoch: true, it is the magic of the written word
[23:28] Ranoch: and probably the reasons for etching it into a tombstone in the frirst place
[23:28] Sir_VanTC: the magic is in the emotion that it conveys
[23:28] Sir_VanTC: yes
[23:28] Sir_VanTC: I mean I have very little patience for sumerian cooking lists ;)
[23:29] Ranoch: oh, I dont know
[23:29] Ranoch: if its a novel recipe
[23:29] Sir_VanTC: lol
[23:29] Ranoch: eat something nobody has eaten for thousands of years
[23:29] Sir_VanTC: hehe
[23:29] Ranoch: its a bit like reliving historical times :)
[23:30] Sir_VanTC: hmm I dont know...
[23:30] Sir_VanTC: I thought about that
[23:30] Sir_VanTC: people told me I am born in the wrong era
[23:30] Ranoch: when it comes down to it, history is just as mundane as the present :)
[23:30] Sir_VanTC: exactly :)
[23:30] Sir_VanTC: I would have missed a very interesting time if I was born 200 years ago
[23:31] Sir_VanTC: and the same goes if I was born in 200 years
[23:31] Ranoch: sure thing, but you would have seen other interesting things
[23:31] Ranoch: and loved, lived and laughed
[23:31] Sir_VanTC: exactly
[23:32] Sir_VanTC: ergo dont judge: cause the times they are achanging
[23:32] Sir_VanTC: :)
[23:32] Sir_VanTC: wise man mister Dylan
[23:32] Sir_VanTC: anyways... I am off to bed
[23:32] Ranoch: less judging, more understanding
[23:33] Ranoch: its a good wish for the future )
[23:33] Sir_VanTC: yup
[23:33] Sir_VanTC: amen to that
[23:33] Ranoch: goodnight :)
[23:33] Sir_VanTC: to my surprise I was asked this afternoon to do a part of the church service tomorrow
[23:33] Ranoch: well, its a nice thought to put into service ;)
[23:33] Sir_VanTC: hehehehe
[23:33] Sir_VanTC: cya tomorrow!
[23:34] Ranoch: greetings to half!
[23:33] Ranoch: seeya :)
[22:53] Sir_VanTC: but you dont hear those
[22:55] Ranoch: well, a death because of human error is worse for me, than a human saved by human heroics is good, I think
[22:55] Sir_VanTC: it doesnt compare
[22:55] Sir_VanTC: there is just two sides
[22:55] Ranoch: no amount of heroics will undo the death done
[22:55] Sir_VanTC: and eventually the guys who fucked up (GWB?) will get their butts kicked
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: exactly but that doesn make the death done worse
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: it is simply incomparable
[22:56] Ranoch: well, it could have been avoided, thats the bad part
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: could it?
[22:56] Ranoch: sure it could
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: if ppl would have thought other wise yes
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: but they didnt
[22:56] Ranoch: if people didnt fuck up, you mean ;)
[22:56] Sir_VanTC: ppl everywhere felt invincible
[22:57] Sir_VanTC: no its a way of thinking
[22:57] Sir_VanTC: if you believe you are invincible rich and can handle a bit of storm and some flooding easily
[22:57] Sir_VanTC: I mean like us today her in Holland
[22:57] Ranoch: if you have to let people die in the streets in the US because of a lack of food an medicine, someone fucked up royally
[22:57] Sir_VanTC: I believe we can handle any storm easily
[22:58] Sir_VanTC: sure butthat is not "someone"
[22:58] Sir_VanTC: it is everyone because society believes it
[22:58] Sir_VanTC: of course somebody is responsible
[22:58] Sir_VanTC: and you can pounish him/her
[22:58] Sir_VanTC: and decisions could have been handled better
[22:59] Sir_VanTC: but eventually it all comes down to simply not believing the reality
[22:59] Sir_VanTC: western society is the strongest
[22:59] Sir_VanTC: and nothing can destroy it
[23:00] Sir_VanTC: its actually ignorance that killed most ppl not Katerina
[23:00] Ranoch: sure, but I dont believe any country would do worse
[23:00] Sir_VanTC: and not ignorance in a bad way, but simply ignorance
[23:00] Ranoch: western country, that is
[23:00] Sir_VanTC: I cant say that
[23:01] Ranoch: well, if I see the reactions of england and spain after the bombings, I get a pretty decent picture
[23:01] Sir_VanTC: because it did not hit any other country under these cricumstances
[23:01] Ranoch: or the dutch reaction after the fireworks disaster
[23:01] Sir_VanTC: the problem with history is always that ppl start comparing
[23:01] Sir_VanTC: but you cant
[23:02] Sir_VanTC: every situation is so unique that we can hardly say that we would have handled it better (of course we would)
[23:02] Ranoch: only way to learn from unique situations is drawing comparisons, learning by analogy
[23:02] Sir_VanTC: ah... but can you learn from history?
[23:02] Ranoch: yes
[23:02] Sir_VanTC: is that what history is for?
[23:02] Ranoch: yes, again :)
[23:03] Ranoch: history is the sum of human at its highest and lowest
[23:03] Sir_VanTC: my answers would be "maybe a bit" and "no"
[23:03] Sir_VanTC: history essentially doesnt have a purpose other than what we give it
[23:03] Ranoch: history is doomed to repeat itself until we are willing to learn from mistakes made by others before us
[23:03] Sir_VanTC: no it doesnt
[23:04] Sir_VanTC: it doesnt repeat it self
[23:04] Sir_VanTC: it cant
[23:04] Ranoch: it repeats itself continually
[23:04] Ranoch: only always in different details
[23:04] Sir_VanTC: but arent it the details that form history
[23:04] Sir_VanTC: ?
[23:04] Ranoch: no, because there is also the core of things
[23:05] Sir_VanTC: I really dont believe in a core of things
[23:05] Ranoch: the psychology of mankind
[23:05] Sir_VanTC: history is the sum of actions
[23:05] Ranoch: the self preservation
[23:05] Ranoch: the vices and virtues
[23:05] Sir_VanTC: that would mean some kind of conscience
[23:05] Ranoch: sure
[23:06] Sir_VanTC: in my opinion history simply *is*
[23:06] Sir_VanTC: and whatever we do with it is the meaning of it
[23:06] Sir_VanTC: if you want to learn lessons
[23:06] Sir_VanTC: go ahead, if you want to prove your culture there it is
[23:07] Sir_VanTC: I mean history can teach you everything and can help you proof any claim
[23:08] Ranoch: for me the only reason of history is to learn from it, otherwise I could just as well read fiction
[23:08] Ranoch: and I must admit, from good fiction you can also learn lessons
[23:09] Sir_VanTC: ah yes...
[23:09] Sir_VanTC: but isnt there my point? for *you* the only reason is
[23:09] Ranoch: its a great point
[23:09] Sir_VanTC: but that is not *the* reason
[23:09] Ranoch: but if it works for me, it should have it in itself to (also) be such a reason
[23:09] Sir_VanTC: *the* reason does not exist
[23:10] Ranoch: only a sith deals in absolutes :P
[23:10] Sir_VanTC: lol
[23:10] Ranoch: and dont let my semantics prove that I mean absolutes
[23:10] Sir_VanTC: I really believe that
[23:10] Sir_VanTC: hehe
[23:10] Ranoch: when I say that *the* reason for me is learning, I dont mean it is the only valid reason :)
[23:10] Sir_VanTC: I really believe that we can learn much less lessons from history than most of us think/would like
[23:10] Ranoch: but it is the only valid one from my perspective, and for me personally
[23:11] Sir_VanTC: you see... learning inherently means judging. Was what he did good or bad?
[23:11] Ranoch: thats probably because it is not *the* reason in your perspective :P
[23:11] Sir_VanTC: touchee
[23:11] Sir_VanTC: and I dont believe that you can judge ppl in te past
[23:11] Ranoch: true
[23:12] Sir_VanTC: even though they did the most despicable things
[23:12] Ranoch: but I dont believe learning is always the same as judging
[23:12] Ranoch: I try to understand why people did the things they did
[23:12] Sir_VanTC: unjderstanding is something very different from learning
[23:12] Ranoch: and in order to do so, I must try to remain objective
[23:12] Ranoch: understanding comes after learning, I always think ")
[23:12] Sir_VanTC: absolutely
[23:13] Sir_VanTC: but that makes it something entirely different
[23:13] Ranoch: first I learn the "facts" and then I try to understand them
[23:13] Sir_VanTC: and my problem is that lots of things we cannot understand
[23:13] Ranoch: which usually leads me to the thought that the facts were not facts at all
[23:13] Ranoch: and I start over again
[23:13] Sir_VanTC: I cannot understand why Bush went to war in Iraq the way he did
[23:13] Ranoch: well, I can sortoff
[23:13] Sir_VanTC: and because I cannot understand I will not judge him
[23:14] Ranoch: but never completely
[23:14] Sir_VanTC: you can never ever understand ppl other than yourself in their entirety... ergo you should not judge him
[23:14] Sir_VanTC: them
[23:14] Ranoch: I even think that I would have done the same, if I had his circumstance
[23:15] Sir_VanTC: I mean if I would have been born in Vienna, failed in life, went to war, got blind, experienced cameraderie, got involved in an antisemitic environment..
[23:15] Sir_VanTC: exactly my point
[23:15] Ranoch: but judging is always taking a side
[23:15] Sir_VanTC: exactly
[23:16] Ranoch: there is no such thing as an objective judgement
[23:16] Sir_VanTC: exactly
[23:16] Ranoch: that doesnt mean that I never make judgments though
[23:16] Ranoch: I always try to judge what i should and should not do
[23:16] Sir_VanTC: of course... but these are your choices
[23:16] Ranoch: yup
[23:16] Sir_VanTC: choice is very different from judgement
[23:16] Ranoch: and some of them are strong enough to try to defend
[23:17] Sir_VanTC: absolutely
[23:17] Sir_VanTC: and sometimes strong enough to believe in
[23:17] Ranoch: but when I rant against bush and the war, it is semantics that make me judge bush, while in the end I only mean that I would not have made the same decision myself
[23:17] Sir_VanTC: sure I know that :)
[23:18] Sir_VanTC: but that set of believes, experiences and choices is what forms your history. Add that to 6 billion others
[23:18] Ranoch: it is, after all, tedious to include disclaimers into everything one says ;)
[23:18] Sir_VanTC: and you have the history of the world at this moment
[23:18] Ranoch: well, only the history of every living person now
[23:18] Ranoch: not of every dead person now
[23:18] Sir_VanTC: ergo... it was their choice, I cant understand hence I will not judge...
[23:18] Sir_VanTC: oif course
[23:18] Ranoch: so the history is ever so much bigger
[23:18] Sir_VanTC: yup
[23:19] Sir_VanTC: but that is why I really dont believe in learning from history
[23:19] Ranoch: and thats why I like history, it makes the lives of people who died ages ago meaningful in my life and thus the present
[23:19] Sir_VanTC: because it is never *your* choice so you can *never* tell why someone made it
[23:19] Ranoch: its a sort of immortality, maybe
[23:19] Sir_VanTC: absolutely true
[23:20] Ranoch: and the only thing I would try to undo in history, would be the loss of knowledge
[23:20] Ranoch: if I could undo something, that is
[23:20] Sir_VanTC: I wouldnt
[23:20] Sir_VanTC: my reason for studying history is to make it return in a way
[23:21] Sir_VanTC: to pick some voices from the past and let them talk again
[23:21] Sir_VanTC: so they wont be forgotten
[23:21] Ranoch: definately
[23:21] Sir_VanTC: you read my paper on the Jews in Rome?
[23:21] Ranoch: but more so, to let already forgotten voices re-discovered
[23:22] Sir_VanTC: yes I like the unknown, unmarked people better than the heroes and generals
[23:22] Sir_VanTC: I included an epitaph... lemme see if I can find it
[23:22] Ranoch: if I would ever be able to master linguistics and return a dead language to life enough to read the books from it, I think I will have reached the pinacle of what I would want
[23:23] Sir_VanTC: Hier ligt Regina, bedekt door deze tombe
die, om zijn liefde te tonen, door haar man werd gesticht.
twintig jaren plus één, vier maanden en acht dagen heeft ze in huwelijk naast hem geleefd.
Ze zal weer leven en het licht weer zien.
Want ze zal hopen op te stijgen
naar het eeuwige leven dat is beloofd,
zoals ons ware geloof leert, aan alle waardige
en vrome mensen. Ze heeft het verdiend
om een thuis te vinden in dat meest geheiligde land.
Dat is je verzekerd door je vroomheid,
je leven zo zuiver en je liefde voor alle mensen.
Naleving aan onze wet en trouw
aan je huwelijkse bond die je altijd hebt geprobeerd
mooier te maken. Voor dit alles
is je toekomstig geluk zeker. En in dit vertrouwen
vindt je treurende man zijn enige troost.
[23:23] Sir_VanTC: more than 2000 years old
[23:25] Ranoch: yeah, I read that :)
[23:25] Sir_VanTC: I felt very happy that I could take it from some dusty book in a library, written by someone who found the the grave and include it in my paper which will be read by ppl who would never have picked up the book or visited the original tomb
[23:25] Ranoch: it is indeed touching to see someone devotion after so long
[23:26] Ranoch: *someones devotion
[23:27] Sir_VanTC: it is a weird idea that you can quote some person's personal loss thousands of years later
[23:27] Sir_VanTC: somebody who would likely have felt an extreme loss and desolation. The same feelings I have witnessed with my grandmother
[23:27] Sir_VanTC: and grandfather
[23:28] Sir_VanTC: I mean as in the same
[23:28] Sir_VanTC: emotions dont change
[23:28] Ranoch: true, it is the magic of the written word
[23:28] Ranoch: and probably the reasons for etching it into a tombstone in the frirst place
[23:28] Sir_VanTC: the magic is in the emotion that it conveys
[23:28] Sir_VanTC: yes
[23:28] Sir_VanTC: I mean I have very little patience for sumerian cooking lists ;)
[23:29] Ranoch: oh, I dont know
[23:29] Ranoch: if its a novel recipe
[23:29] Sir_VanTC: lol
[23:29] Ranoch: eat something nobody has eaten for thousands of years
[23:29] Sir_VanTC: hehe
[23:29] Ranoch: its a bit like reliving historical times :)
[23:30] Sir_VanTC: hmm I dont know...
[23:30] Sir_VanTC: I thought about that
[23:30] Sir_VanTC: people told me I am born in the wrong era
[23:30] Ranoch: when it comes down to it, history is just as mundane as the present :)
[23:30] Sir_VanTC: exactly :)
[23:30] Sir_VanTC: I would have missed a very interesting time if I was born 200 years ago
[23:31] Sir_VanTC: and the same goes if I was born in 200 years
[23:31] Ranoch: sure thing, but you would have seen other interesting things
[23:31] Ranoch: and loved, lived and laughed
[23:31] Sir_VanTC: exactly
[23:32] Sir_VanTC: ergo dont judge: cause the times they are achanging
[23:32] Sir_VanTC: :)
[23:32] Sir_VanTC: wise man mister Dylan
[23:32] Sir_VanTC: anyways... I am off to bed
[23:32] Ranoch: less judging, more understanding
[23:33] Ranoch: its a good wish for the future )
[23:33] Sir_VanTC: yup
[23:33] Sir_VanTC: amen to that
[23:33] Ranoch: goodnight :)
[23:33] Sir_VanTC: to my surprise I was asked this afternoon to do a part of the church service tomorrow
[23:33] Ranoch: well, its a nice thought to put into service ;)
[23:33] Sir_VanTC: hehehehe
[23:33] Sir_VanTC: cya tomorrow!
[23:34] Ranoch: greetings to half!
[23:33] Ranoch: seeya :)