Thanks for the info!vallenvaliantSeptember 21 2004, 18:02:28 UTC
I knew I should have made myself clear... (I am bad at that.) I am actually glad you gave me an approximate era when the Dark ages ended... Both posts below was from the same website: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view.php/4874
(An interpretation of Catholicism on the net mixed with the Dark age. More religion-based) "A Dark Age in our Christian history was when Catholicism reigned. Catholicism personified the great falling away prophesied in scripture (2 Thes. 2: 1-12; I Tim. 4: 1-3). During a period of about one thousand years, the Catholic Church enjoyed unchallenged domination (Ad 590-1517)."
(A historically more ACCURATE meaning of Dark Age) "Dark Ages is a term once used to describe the Middle Ages, especially the early Middle Ages, which lasted from the A.D. 400's to the 900's. The term referred to a supposed lack of learning in the period. Actually, the Middle Ages were not completely "dark." The period only seemed dark to scholars of the more advanced Renaissance and to historians influenced by them.
In the early Middle Ages, civilization sank low in Western Europe. Knowledge from the ancient Romans survived only in a few monastery, cathedral, and palace schools. Knowledge from ancient Greece almost disappeared. Few people received schooling. Many artistic and technical skills were lost. In their ignorance, writers accepted popular stories and rumors as true. Population decreased, and economic life became more primitive."
...............
It appears my usage of 'Dark Age' was incorrect from a historial point of view, but was sufficent for my argument. Using the 1517 A.D. as the cut-off date, just before Martin Luther nailed a piece of paper to a door, Catholicism was at it's political hight, with its ability to remove kings, and the Holy Roman Empire at its mightiest. Yet in the same time, for that short moment, it was no longer a religion, an idea... it was a nation. And nations could fall where religion survives.
Just before 1517 A.D. + 400 years = Just bfore 1917 A.D.
...The next visit from airships, and one which resulted in the most dramatic incident of the war for Bostonians, arrived on the night of September 2nd 1916 when an L23 Zeppelin dropped bombs on Boston for the first time. Of the four bombs which hit the town, the one which struck the Grand Sluice caused the most damage with one member of the lock-keepers family fatally wounded by the blast and several more people injured. Boston could consider itself unlucky in that the Zeppelin involved in the raid had intended to bomb London but was unable to find its target due to bad weather... (Finally bombed London in 23-24)
Any thoughts?
.............. About the Sins... It is only an interesting idea I had, for Dante to have open war declared on Rome. She might not have all 7 Sins with her, but some degree of hatred towards 'some people'definitely remained to this day. Pride is certainly proof Dante is happy to create a Sin for any particular purpose. My idea was she might have lost a few sins during the assault, as the 7 Sins are not truly immortal.
Either way, I am happy to consider the likelyhold that Dante took on Rome single-handedly. With a piece of the Philosopher's Stone, together with a few city-size transmutation circles, A very angry witch with the desire to avenge the death of her people could very well do the job of seven sins...
How about this theory? Dante did not bury Rome AFTER she killed everyone there. Instead, sinking Rome underground could have been the require part of her assault plan.
Further more, historically Rome had been destroyed before. Yet it always rises back up. The only way Dante could have prevented reconstruction was to build her own city over it. She had an obvious violent hatred towards those who hunted her, and wants to leave no trace of it. Unlike other Christianities, Cathlicism NEEDS Rome. Either way, she never forgave those who hurt her... Dante's talk with her student infered her hatred towards humanity in general, and that seems to explain her utter disregard for human lives... She no longer consider herself human.
Re: Thanks for the info!shikamiSeptember 22 2004, 02:24:50 UTC
You do realize that we could debate this until the cows come home right?? *L* Just thought I'd throw that in... but since I'm procrastinating before doing my property law assignment anyway...
I'd agree with your theory on dates but for one thing. From what I understand of your theory, you're saying that Dante destroyed "Rome" approx 1517 and as this is 400 years later, that would make present day approx September 2nd, 1916.
Problem is, the FMA world no longer operates on the A.D. calendar. When Ed read that letter from Hoenheim to Dante, Izumi-sensei mentioned that the date was based on the birth of Christ and was no longer in use. She also concludes from this that the letter is at least 400 years old. Which would mean that the A.D. calendar has been redundant for at least 400 years. In essence, this would imply that the events of September 2, 1916 A.D. is an event of the past, not the present date.
Certainly, looking at the clothing from when Hoenheim transmuted the Philosopher's Stone, it would suggest that the Dark Ages were well finished by this time. I doubt that tuxedos were considered proper 'livery' *L* for the early 16th Century. If I remember correctly, mid 16th Century was when Shakespeare was born, and I'm sure you're well aware of what Shakespeare wears in his portraits *L* Also, I'm not sure when the Witch Hunts in Europe took place. But the Witch Hunts which made Salem famous didn't take place until the late 17th Century, if not early 18th Century.
My thoughts on the bombing of September 2nd, 1916 is simply that it was the event which in effect ended the world as they knew it, thus the need for a new calendar system. I'm not saying that it was the bombing that did it, but just *something* that happened on that day. Dante and Hoenheim may or may not have had anything to do with it, but they were most likely there when it happened.
I'm also iffy about the Dante wanting revenge for her people, your assumption that she is a witch aside. When she mentioned Hoenheim transmuting the Philosopher's Stone, she clearly states that they used the people affected by the plague and people from the Witch Hunts to do it -- I take this to mean that these people were the ones in the cages, not that the people who persecuted the witches were the ones in the cages.
I am actually glad you gave me an approximate era when the Dark ages ended...
Both posts below was from the same website:
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view.php/4874
(An interpretation of Catholicism on the net mixed with the Dark age. More religion-based)
"A Dark Age in our Christian history was when Catholicism reigned. Catholicism personified the great falling away prophesied in scripture (2 Thes. 2: 1-12; I Tim. 4: 1-3). During a period of about one thousand years, the Catholic Church enjoyed unchallenged domination (Ad 590-1517)."
(A historically more ACCURATE meaning of Dark Age)
"Dark Ages is a term once used to describe the Middle Ages, especially the early Middle Ages, which lasted from the A.D. 400's to the 900's. The term referred to a supposed lack of learning in the period. Actually, the Middle Ages were not completely "dark." The period only seemed dark to scholars of the more advanced Renaissance and to historians influenced by them.
In the early Middle Ages, civilization sank low in Western Europe. Knowledge from the ancient Romans survived only in a few monastery, cathedral, and palace schools. Knowledge from ancient Greece almost disappeared. Few people received schooling. Many artistic and technical skills were lost. In their ignorance, writers accepted popular stories and rumors as true. Population decreased, and economic life became more primitive."
...............
It appears my usage of 'Dark Age' was incorrect from a historial point of view, but was sufficent for my argument.
Using the 1517 A.D. as the cut-off date, just before Martin Luther nailed a piece of paper to a door, Catholicism was at it's political hight, with its ability to remove kings, and the Holy Roman Empire at its mightiest. Yet in the same time, for that short moment, it was no longer a religion, an idea... it was a nation. And nations could fall where religion survives.
Just before 1517 A.D. + 400 years = Just bfore 1917 A.D.
Compare that to...
September 2nd, 1916 A.D.
How does that sound?
About that date...From the website http://www.bostonuk.com/history/and_ww1.htm
...The next visit from airships, and one which resulted in the most dramatic incident of the war for Bostonians, arrived on the night of September 2nd 1916 when an L23 Zeppelin dropped bombs on Boston for the first time. Of the four bombs which hit the town, the one which struck the Grand Sluice caused the most damage with one member of the lock-keepers family fatally wounded by the blast and several more people injured. Boston could consider itself unlucky in that the Zeppelin involved in the raid had intended to bomb London but was unable to find its target due to bad weather...
(Finally bombed London in 23-24)
Any thoughts?
..............
About the Sins... It is only an interesting idea I had, for Dante to have open war declared on Rome. She might not have all 7 Sins with her, but some degree of hatred towards 'some people'definitely remained to this day. Pride is certainly proof Dante is happy to create a Sin for any particular purpose. My idea was she might have lost a few sins during the assault, as the 7 Sins are not truly immortal.
Either way, I am happy to consider the likelyhold that Dante took on Rome single-handedly. With a piece of the Philosopher's Stone, together with a few city-size transmutation circles, A very angry witch with the desire to avenge the death of her people could very well do the job of seven sins...
How about this theory? Dante did not bury Rome AFTER she killed everyone there. Instead, sinking Rome underground could have been the require part of her assault plan.
Further more, historically Rome had been destroyed before. Yet it always rises back up. The only way Dante could have prevented reconstruction was to build her own city over it. She had an obvious violent hatred towards those who hunted her, and wants to leave no trace of it. Unlike other Christianities, Cathlicism NEEDS Rome.
Either way, she never forgave those who hurt her... Dante's talk with her student infered her hatred towards humanity in general, and that seems to explain her utter disregard for human lives... She no longer consider herself human.
Reply
I'd agree with your theory on dates but for one thing. From what I understand of your theory, you're saying that Dante destroyed "Rome" approx 1517 and as this is 400 years later, that would make present day approx September 2nd, 1916.
Problem is, the FMA world no longer operates on the A.D. calendar. When Ed read that letter from Hoenheim to Dante, Izumi-sensei mentioned that the date was based on the birth of Christ and was no longer in use. She also concludes from this that the letter is at least 400 years old. Which would mean that the A.D. calendar has been redundant for at least 400 years. In essence, this would imply that the events of September 2, 1916 A.D. is an event of the past, not the present date.
Certainly, looking at the clothing from when Hoenheim transmuted the Philosopher's Stone, it would suggest that the Dark Ages were well finished by this time. I doubt that tuxedos were considered proper 'livery' *L* for the early 16th Century. If I remember correctly, mid 16th Century was when Shakespeare was born, and I'm sure you're well aware of what Shakespeare wears in his portraits *L* Also, I'm not sure when the Witch Hunts in Europe took place. But the Witch Hunts which made Salem famous didn't take place until the late 17th Century, if not early 18th Century.
My thoughts on the bombing of September 2nd, 1916 is simply that it was the event which in effect ended the world as they knew it, thus the need for a new calendar system. I'm not saying that it was the bombing that did it, but just *something* that happened on that day. Dante and Hoenheim may or may not have had anything to do with it, but they were most likely there when it happened.
I'm also iffy about the Dante wanting revenge for her people, your assumption that she is a witch aside. When she mentioned Hoenheim transmuting the Philosopher's Stone, she clearly states that they used the people affected by the plague and people from the Witch Hunts to do it -- I take this to mean that these people were the ones in the cages, not that the people who persecuted the witches were the ones in the cages.
Rebuttal?? *LOL*
Reply
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