I spent my time in the Marines, church was compulsory in the beginning of boot, but later you had the option of opting out and doing work details.
It was pretty much a non-issue later as long as you didn't have a problem with listing your loyalties as God, Country, Corps, in that order... no one bugged you about who your God was.
At some point in the mid-90's, General Krulack became Commandant, and suddenly there were prayer groups at the 'office'. Prayer Group was from 7-8AM so that it would be 'before' normal reporting time of 8AM. But then we had to start reporting at 7AM so that those who 'wished' to attend, might do so.
I enlisted to kill commies for my government, or whatever anti-Americans may be out there. That's in direct violation of a commandment, so I asked a chaplain out at School of Infantry about it. He had a pretty good loophole worked out, about a 'Just' war (which explains some of the language that President Bush was using in the lead-up to Gulf War II).
20 years later, it makes a bit more sense, our moral high-ground against the Communists was that they were Godless heathens. I work as a Scout leader now which has the same premise as the military is supposed to, you should have a 'moral compass', which generally derives from church. So even if you don't follow a biblical God of some sort, they want young men and women to believe in something greater than themselves. They want us to believe that we will have to answer for our sins (even if killing is loopholed like something out of Orwell's Animal Farm), because this will not only keep soldiers and Marines in the field from committing atrocities, but it allows us to fight while claiming a moral high-ground.
There is also supposed to be a 'faith' aspect, but as a Marine I never had to worry about that. Marines are crazy-loyal, so I always knew that if I got stuck in a bad spot, it would be my fellow Marines risking Fire and Brimstone for me... God mostly gives solace and patience. It was bad form to admit that you had more faith in your fellow Marines than you had in God, but the more 'grunt' the unit, the more I found that Faith in each other was much more prominent.
If you're referring to the sixth commandment, the (original) Hebrew means "You shall not commit murder." Unless one considers all acts of war to be murder (including the Biblical ones), then those prosecuting said acts don't violate the commandment. "Atrocities in the field" as you call them, certainly would fall under the category of murder- which I'm glad we (globally) agree on being forbidden.
Your padre's Biblical knowledge must've been pretty poor if he had to invoke a loophole when a clear explanation like this is so obvious.
...and I mean really: "Though shalt not 'kill'" would logically lead us to conclude that we couldn't hunt or fish- does that make any sense?
Re: Bible-metadiermuidJanuary 21 2011, 03:58:28 UTC
I'm living an hour away from Fred Phelps, so I've certainly seen some atrocities in biblical interpretation. ;-)
I think the Chaplain explained it well enough, killing in a just war was not the same as the 'murder' referred to in the commandment. I suppose it depends on how you define murder... but in most senses we're still training to kill people in a premeditated act of aggression. Not that I had any problem with the killing of other people, I just kept my Christianity out of it.
Re: Bible-metathe_pathogenJanuary 22 2011, 21:13:20 UTC
So, by your own admission you're a Christian Vegan? As I'm sure you're a devout Christian and you must practice your faith to the best of your understanding and interpretation. If you conclude that "killing" includes non-humans, you must practice not killing humans.
I think "Though shalt not kill" should be kept within the scope of the other 10 commands. That is just common sense. Unless you're a moron and believe that we can't "steal" or "commit adultery" or "bear false witness" against animals, too. Hilarious!
It was pretty much a non-issue later as long as you didn't have a problem with listing your loyalties as God, Country, Corps, in that order... no one bugged you about who your God was.
At some point in the mid-90's, General Krulack became Commandant, and suddenly there were prayer groups at the 'office'. Prayer Group was from 7-8AM so that it would be 'before' normal reporting time of 8AM. But then we had to start reporting at 7AM so that those who 'wished' to attend, might do so.
I enlisted to kill commies for my government, or whatever anti-Americans may be out there. That's in direct violation of a commandment, so I asked a chaplain out at School of Infantry about it. He had a pretty good loophole worked out, about a 'Just' war (which explains some of the language that President Bush was using in the lead-up to Gulf War II).
20 years later, it makes a bit more sense, our moral high-ground against the Communists was that they were Godless heathens. I work as a Scout leader now which has the same premise as the military is supposed to, you should have a 'moral compass', which generally derives from church. So even if you don't follow a biblical God of some sort, they want young men and women to believe in something greater than themselves. They want us to believe that we will have to answer for our sins (even if killing is loopholed like something out of Orwell's Animal Farm), because this will not only keep soldiers and Marines in the field from committing atrocities, but it allows us to fight while claiming a moral high-ground.
There is also supposed to be a 'faith' aspect, but as a Marine I never had to worry about that. Marines are crazy-loyal, so I always knew that if I got stuck in a bad spot, it would be my fellow Marines risking Fire and Brimstone for me... God mostly gives solace and patience. It was bad form to admit that you had more faith in your fellow Marines than you had in God, but the more 'grunt' the unit, the more I found that Faith in each other was much more prominent.
Reply
If you're referring to the sixth commandment, the (original) Hebrew means "You shall not commit murder." Unless one considers all acts of war to be murder (including the Biblical ones), then those prosecuting said acts don't violate the commandment. "Atrocities in the field" as you call them, certainly would fall under the category of murder- which I'm glad we (globally) agree on being forbidden.
Your padre's Biblical knowledge must've been pretty poor if he had to invoke a loophole when a clear explanation like this is so obvious.
...and I mean really: "Though shalt not 'kill'" would logically lead us to conclude that we couldn't hunt or fish- does that make any sense?
Reply
I think the Chaplain explained it well enough, killing in a just war was not the same as the 'murder' referred to in the commandment. I suppose it depends on how you define murder... but in most senses we're still training to kill people in a premeditated act of aggression. Not that I had any problem with the killing of other people, I just kept my Christianity out of it.
Reply
I think "Though shalt not kill" should be kept within the scope of the other 10 commands. That is just common sense. Unless you're a moron and believe that we can't "steal" or "commit adultery" or "bear false witness" against animals, too. Hilarious!
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment