article: Man can sue for distress over surprise pregnancy, but sperm were hers to keep

Feb 24, 2005 14:03

Followed the link from youphoric and just had to post this one. My apologies to anyone who reads the article. :)

Court: Man can sue for distress over surprise pregnancy, but sperm were hers to keep
Detroit Free Press [linkThursday, February 24, 2005 ( Read more... )

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You're right. youphoric February 24 2005, 19:24:29 UTC
That's what the court ruled. They threw out the theft and fraud suits and keep the emotional distress suit. That's just so nasty.

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Re: You're right. userillusion February 24 2005, 19:56:36 UTC
From the article, it doesn't sound like he sued for economic damages, which is different from suing her for theft and fraud. $800/mo is a lot! I wonder if he's planning to go back and sue for economic damages. Or maybe that's what he's really after in his emotional distress lawsuit.

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Re: You're right. reynspirit February 24 2005, 20:44:57 UTC
I would not be surprised if they were having oral sex in the doctor's office-- so she probably had easy access to the requisite storage materials ( ... )

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Re: You're right. userillusion February 24 2005, 20:59:17 UTC
Child support is a suit on behalf of the child. ...The courts have ruled repeatedly that moms cannot waive their child's right to support. Child support is the right of the child, regardless of behavior of the child's parents.
Right, but what I'm thinking is that he couldn't sue to get the child support payments dropped, because, like you said, that's for the child and is owed regardless of the behavior of the child's parents, but I would think he could sue for financial damages, in which case she would owe him $800/mo and he would still owe the child $800/mo in child support. He would still be liable for child support, so it wouldn't be a waiver, but she would be liable to him for the financial damages she's caused him. She owes him, he owes the child. I think that's an important distinction between suing for financial damages and suing to be released from responsibility for child support. Not sure it would work, but I think it would be worth trying.

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Re: You're right. reynspirit February 24 2005, 21:45:13 UTC
That would discourage parents from enforcing their child's rights. We don't want any kind of precedent that encourages dads to prevail over moms in custody suits. Because moms will be afraid to hold dads liable if there's something questionable in their character. That's a disbenefit to the child ( ... )

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Just FYI... black_berry623 February 25 2005, 03:16:24 UTC
Don't forget, he's probably paying his attorney $300/hr...

"Phillips is representing himself in the case. He could not be reached for comment Thursday."

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Re: Just FYI... reynspirit February 25 2005, 04:39:21 UTC
Not sure it would work, but I think it would be worth trying.

i guess my main point is that it wouldn't be worth trying because he'd lose. he's a doctor. no doubt he consulted an attorney and didn'tlike the answer he got.

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Re: You're right. userillusion February 25 2005, 14:44:50 UTC
The reality is that it would bankrupt her and she wouldn't have to pay it anyway.
Why is that a consideration, though, in determining liability? People get sued all the time for sums of money they couldn't possibly afford. That doesn't mean they're not liable. Also, I'm not sure that, in this case, it's safe to assume it would bankrupt her.

If you bankrupt her, you're essentially taking money out of the kid's mouth.
You bankrupt her if you sue her over something else, too, though. Parents have no immunity simply because they're parents.

Yes, he might get damages for emotional distress, but a lawsuit for damages because you have to pay child support won't incur the sensitivity of the court.It may incur the sensitivity of the court, but I don't see how that would change the legal merit of the case. It seems that by allowing the lawsuit for emotional damages to go through, the court is acknowledging that there is some merit to that case. If so, and if it can be shown that the woman's same actions were a direct a cause of ( ... )

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Re: You're right. reynspirit February 25 2005, 16:54:36 UTC
"Why is that a consideration, though, in determining liability?i>
-- It is a consideration because the foundation of torts is compensation. You have to understand that most torts aren't intentional. Most of the time, courts are awarding damages for accidents (e.g. old lady spills coffee on herself, it burns the shit out of her, she has to get lots of surgeries-- it pays to sue McDonald's a lot more than if she spilled hot coffee on herself at her relatives house in the hood). Courts do consider how much they are going to award based on the Plaintiff's ability to pay it. If they want to teach McDonald's a lesson, they'll award more than just what would compensate the lady for the surgeries. They wouldn't need to teach her relatives a lesson any amount of damages will make them hurt. They'll look at how much her insurance paid for the injuries and only charge them for the days she missed work.

You bankrupt her if you sue her over something else, too, though. Parents have no immunity simply because they're parents.Right. Courts ( ... )

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Re: You're right. userillusion February 25 2005, 18:04:28 UTC
Courts do consider how much they are going to award based on the Plaintiff's ability to pay it.
Okay, but I guess what I'm asking is, isn't the damages awarded a separate matter? I mean, I thought they first determined whether or not, for instance, she's responsible for financial damages, and then, after that's been determined, that's when they start considering numbers. I don't know, that's why I was looking forward to what you'd have to say about all of this! :)

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Re: You're right. reynspirit February 25 2005, 19:27:22 UTC
It's very difficult to explain something to people from a legal perspective when they don't understand the paradigms that bound the legal perspective. Here are the basic elements of a tort claim ( ... )

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lj messed up my outline reynspirit February 25 2005, 19:32:39 UTC
Prima Facie Tort Claim:
- Duty (standard of care-- reasonable or strict liability)
- Breach of Duty
- Causation (Cx)- some causal chain b/w D’s breach and P’s consequences
----Cause in fact: But-for test: (yes, no)
----Proximate Cause (Px) (legal Q for judge)- was D’s conduct close enough to P’s harm that we want to attach liability?
- Harm (Damages (Dx))
-----economic harm- harms suffered b/c life is more expensive (compensatory)
-----non-econ. harm- “pain and suffering”- harms suffered after econ. harm; residual inconvenience (restorative)
-----Punitive Dx- not designed to compensate P; law’s way of punishing
- P’s lawyer usually paid on contingency fee; 33% (D’s lawyers paid by the hr)

You need the bolded elements... those elements can be fulfilled in different ways (e.g. proximate cause or cause in fact would fulfill the Cx element).

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Re: lj messed up my outline userillusion February 25 2005, 19:45:29 UTC
For future reference, you can force something like that to retain spacing and stuff by using the
tag. For example:

A. Blah-bitty-blah
1. blahhhhh blah blah
2. bo-bittidy-blah-blah
B. Pft!
1. whatever
- ridiculous!

Just so you know. :)

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Re: lj messed up my outline reynspirit February 25 2005, 19:55:43 UTC
Hey, this is a woman's right to bodily autonomy we're talking about... and not just with regard to pregnancy-- surely, there isn't a duty to swallow!

C'mon, we can't have a policy that permits men to repossess sperm! At the end of the day, you have to be responsible for your deposits.

But anyway, it makes perfect sense to me.

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Re: lj messed up my outline userillusion February 25 2005, 21:41:26 UTC
...surely, there isn't a duty to swallow!
I had a real-life friend who once performed oral sex on a guy, but she made it clear she didn't want to get any of his ejaculate in her mouth. When the time came, he held her head so she could get out of the way. So she held it in her mouth and a little later kissed him and, uh, gave it back.

As much as I didn't need to hear all of that, I couldn't help but to laugh when she told me! All of that's to say that, no, I don't think there's a duty to swallow.

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Re: lj messed up my outline reynspirit February 25 2005, 21:58:13 UTC
Talk about emotional distress...

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