USAGI YOJIMBO BD. 10, MAY 2002
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UNDERSTANDING USAGI: AN INTERVIEW WITH STAN SAKAI
By STEFAN PANNOR (USAGI YOJIMBO BD. 10, MAY 2002)
Dear Stefan,
Rather than answering all your questions at one time, I will answer them in parts and send them back to you in a series of e-mails. I hope I will not take too long to answer them.
Please feel free to edit my answers.
So here we go with the first part of "Understanding Usagi"! ;-)
STEFAN PANNOR: Tell me about your road to the comics. You were born in Kyoto, then moved to Hawaii. So you've been starting reading Mangas?
STAN SAKAI: My father was in the US Army stationed in Japan. He met and married my mother there and my older brother and I were born in Japan. I was born in 1953. When I was about two years old, we moved to Hawaii where my father was born. His father had emigrated there from Japan so that makes me a third generation Japanese-American. I actually read American comics before manga but I was exposed to some Japanese comics such as Tetsuan Atom and other works by Osamu Tezuka. Years later, I met Dr. Tezuka and my wife and I went to Japan as guests of Tezuka Productions.
STEFAN PANNOR: What were the first comics you read?
STAN SAKAI: I read mainly DC comics and some Disney--mainly Superman, Batman and Uncle Scrooge. I remember buying Fantastic Four #2 off the comics rack. I bought it because it was still 10 cents and DC had just raised their prices to 12 cents. From then on, I read a lot of Marvel comics. The Stan Lee/Steve Ditko Spider-Man was my favorite.
STEFAN PANNOR: Did your parents in any way read comics? And did their reading influence you?
STAN SAKAI: My father would read comics occasionally but really enjoyed novels--westerns and detective stories. My mother read Japanese novels. My older brother Ed was the big comics buyer. He had quite a collection and whenever I bought a comic, I would give it to him and he would let me read his comics for an hour. He later gave me his collection when he lost interest in comics.
STEFAN PANNOR: Were you a comic-fan? What was your earliest connection to the fandom?
STAN SAKAI: I always enjoyed comics but did not know there was such a thing as a comics fandom until I met some other aspiring cartoonists in the 7th grade (this was in the 1960's). We started making our own comics, creating our own characters and stories.
Comics fandom back then was not as organized as it is today. There were no conventions or fanzines or an organized way for fans to contact one another. One day, a magazine about comics showed up in my mailbox. It was from Texas (I still have no idea how they got my name or address) and it had advertisements for people wanting to buy and sell comics and selling their own books. That was my first introduction to real comics fandom.
STEFAN PANNOR: When did you start drawing?
STAN SAKAI: I've always enjoyed drawing and I enjoyed comics but I never put the two together. I did not even consider that there were real people writing the stories or doing the art. Comics for me were just something that magically appeared in the stores every week. It was not until Marvel put credits that I realized that there were people creating these books. I did not know how a comic was made until Lee and Ditko did a short story of how they create a Spider-Man story as a back-up in Spider-Man Annual #1. I later told Stan Lee that I learned how to draw comics from that short story and he just laughed.
But, back to your question. As I said, I always enjoyed drawing but did not take my first art class until high school--the 11th grade. My teacher was very encouraging and entered my work in a lot of art shows. She just retired and we still keep in touch. I dedicated one of my books to her.
STEFAN PANNOR: You've been drawing comics since then? What kind of profession did you learn?
STAN SAKAI: I majored in art while at the University of Hawaii, concentrating on drawing and painting. I was also doing free-lance art for magazines, advertising, t-shirts and anything else that would buy my art.
STEFAN PANNOR: Your first comic-creation I think was "Nilson Groundthumper", published first in 1980. Would you tell me something about this character?
STAN SAKAI: Nilson was first published in Albedo Comics in 1984. He's a wandering rabbit with a guinea pig friend named Hermy. Whereas Usagi's adventures take place in feudal Japan, Nilson lives in Europe at that same time. The Nilson stories are much more humorous and much less researched.
STEFAN PANNOR: When and how did you meet Sergio Aragonés?
STAN SAKAI: I've known Sergio for about 24 years. We had a mutual friend who lives in Hawaii. When I moved to California I called Sergio and he invited me to a CAPS meeting. The Comic Arts Professional Society is a cartoonists' organization in Los Angeles. It's a social organization that meets monthly. At one time we had members such as Jack Kirby, Doug Wildey, Dave Stevens, Mark Evanier, and William Stout. Anyway, I met Sergio at that meeting and we have been friends ever since.
STEFAN PANNOR: Your first professional job in the comic-book-industry was the lettering for Sergio’s "Groo the wanderer"? Wasn't that a surprise for you? Didn't you see yourself as penciling artist?
STAN SAKAI: I was doing freelance art in Los Angeles and I also taught calligraphy classes. Sergio needed a letterer for his new comic and asked me. I accepted, of course. I still enjoy working with him and Mark Evanier and have learned a lot from both of them.
STEFAN PANNOR: You did a lot of lettering for different comic books. Would you name some?
STAN SAKAI: I also did lettering for many of the American Disney comics as well as a few newspaper comic strips. I enjoy lettering in that it is very relaxing and mechanical. I don't have to worry so much about composition, anatomy or story. I get the art pages and the script and get working.
But I am very picky about what books I letter. I'm not saying that I am a terrific letterer, but it is just something I do on the side. I still prefer drawing.
STEFAN PANNOR: You received some awards for your lettering. What would you say is the special Stan-Sakai-way of lettering?
STAN SAKAI: I don't think I have any special method. Like artists, every letterer has a distinctive style. I have developed a style that complements my drawing. That is another reason I am very pleased with the current German editions of Usagi because the publisher has used my lettering style in that book.
STEFAN PANNOR: Are you still lettering the "Spider-Man"-dailies?
STAN SAKAI: Actually, I only letter the Sundays. Yes. Stan Lee was the first name I associated with comics. His name was on all my favorites so when he asked me to letter for him, I accepted. At that time, it was the only thing he was personally writing. I would not have imagined I would one day be working with Stan. He is a wonderful man. He provided an introduction to one of the Usagi albums.
STEFAN PANNOR: The first appearance of Usagi Yojimbo was in 1985. Did you do any other comics except Nilson between 1980 and `85?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi was created in 1982 but never appeared in print until 1984 when Albedo #2 featured a Usagi cover and short story. As I said earlier, Nilson also first appeared in 1984, in Albedo #1.
STEFAN PANNOR: Let’s talk about your way to Usagi Yojimbo. The main-influence to that character was the samurai and philosopher Miyamoto Musashi. Why especially this person?
STAN SAKAI: I wanted to do a comic book about something other than the superheroes that were and still are dominant in the American comic book market. I was drawn to Musashi because I had known about him for a while through various books and movies. He was not just an innovative swordsman but, as you said, a philosopher as well as a poet and artist. I also wanted to do something involving my Japanese heritage.
STEFAN PANNOR: Can you name any other historically influences as well as other influences that lead directly towards the character of Usagi Yojimbo?
STAN SAKAI: Musashi was very important in the creation of Usagi but my character really has very little to do with the historical Musashi aside from being a wandering swordsman using the two-swords style. Other historical persons have led to the creation of other characters, though. My Tomoe Ame was inspired by Tomoe Gozen, a samurai woman who lived during the Gempei Wars. She was famous for her beauty and skill with the spear. Lord Hikiji was based on Date Masamune, lord of Sendai. He was one of the most powerful lords in feudal Japan and also aspired to become Shogun. Other characters have been influenced by pop culture. The manga and movie series Lone Wolf and Cub became Lone Goat and Kid and Zato-Ichi the blind swordsman from the movies became Zato-Ino the blind swordspig who "sees" with his nose.
STEFAN PANNOR: First you tried to do a realistic comic-book with Miyamoto? When and why did you turn over to do an animal-strip?
STAN SAKAI: As you said, I first wanted to do a more realistic comic book but still involving some fantasy--much like the Hal Foster Prince Valiant stories. However, one day I sketched out a rabbit with his ears tied up in a "chonmage" or samurai topknot and liked the design. So Miyamoto Musashi became Miyamoto Usagi ("Usagi" means "rabbit" or "hare" in Japanese). I thought of making Usagi the only animal in an all human world much like Dave Sim's Cerebus, but decided it just did not work for me and made it an all-animal world instead.
STEFAN PANNOR: In Japan the rabbit is a symbol for luck. Was that the cause for doing Usagi as a rabbit - or was it just about the word-game Musashi-Usagi?
STAN SAKAI: It was because of the visuals. The rabbit with his ears tied up just looked so good. It was a simple design but unique and very striking. It was very fortunate that the rabbit has such a good connotation in Japanese culture unlike the badger which is very mischievous and sometimes evil.
STEFAN PANNOR: Did the animal-status of the other main-characters mean anything special? If you create a new character, how did you come to his animal-status?
STAN SAKAI: It works both ways. Sometimes I think of a character's personality and try to create a visual to match it. Usagi's teacher Katsuichi was created this way. I needed someone strong and imposing and regal and so Katsuichi became a lion. I also borrowed his costume and great flowing mane from a famous kabuki play about a father and son lion. Other times I may come up with visual I really like and try to write a story around it. The whole Usagi Yojimbo series came about this way.
STEFAN PANNOR: There ain't much rabbits in the world of Usagi. Does that mean they're something special?
STAN SAKAI: I try not to overuse rabbits in Usagi's world just to make him special to the reader. However, he is not anything special in terms of the story--that is he is not treated any different than a cat or dog characters.
STEFAN PANNOR: You've created just one human character for "Usagi Yojimbo", the Master Hikiji. Was that just an idea or did you intend something special with that?
STAN SAKAI: I showed Hikiji as a human in one panel and regretted it ever since. At that time, I had a specific story direction I was going toward but those stories have been changed. I originally thought Hikiji would be a Sauron-like character (from Lord of the Rings) whose presence is always felt but he is not really seen.
STEFAN PANNOR: Have you ever thought about doing Usagi as a daily newspaper-strip - like Jeff Smith first did with "Bone"?
STAN SAKAI: Stan Lee once encouraged me to do a newspaper strip but I do not think Usagi would work in that format. Newspaper strips here tend to be very conservative and pretty much all do the same thing, usually a joke-a-day format. Usagi's stories are adventures and the days of the adventure strips--Steve Canyon, Terry and the Pirates, even Popeye-- have long passed away. Besides I would not like to work with a deadline every day.
STEFAN PANNOR: Have you thought about self-publishing "Usagi Yojimbo", like Dave Sim with "Cerebus"?
STAN SAKAI: Sergio had encouraged me to self-publish but publishing is a full time job in itself. I prefer to spend that extra time writing or drawing. Besides, if I self-published, I would need to hire assistants whereas I like to do everything myself. I have always enjoyed my relationships with my various publishers. Our agreements have always been where they would leave me alone and I will send them the stories. They do no have input in the storylines or art so I have a wonderful freedom that most comic book artists in the US do not have. Of course, when I work on other people's characters, I work according to their guidelines such as when I did stories for The Simpsons or Matt Wagner's Grendel.
STEFAN PANNOR: The first Usagi-Stories were published at Albedo and didn't sell very well. But you didn't stop to draw the rabbit. What was your motivation to go on?
STAN SAKAI: Albedo came out at a time when black and white comics were not very popular. The publisher printed about 2,000 comics which quickly sold out and became highly collectible. They originally sold for $1.50. A copy sold on e-bay last year for more than $650.00. But you are right in that we did not get rich doing comics at that time. However, I received a lot of positive comments about my work and I wanted to continue drawing Usagi. I still had a lot of other work doing art to help support me and my family and did Usagi in my spare time. Now it is the other way around where Usagi is my full time job and I do other work in my spare time.
STEFAN PANNOR: The earliest Usagi-Stories were evidently cuter, the characters were drawn with larger heads and smaller bodies. Did you intend to do it as a funny book and if so, why did you change your mind to do a more sophisticated comic?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi's appearance changed on his own as my art style matured. It was completely unconscious on my part. It was never intended to be a humorous comic but I just wanted to tell the kind of stories that I wanted to read. Some stories were serious, some were humorous, there were mysteries and some straight adventures. When I wanted to tell science fiction stories I created Space Usagi, a descendant of the original Usagi Yojimbo.
STEFAN PANNOR: Before you turned over to your current publisher Dark Horse, "Usagi Yojimbo" was published at Fantagraphics and Mirage. What was your first contact to Fantagraphics and why did you left them?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi was first published by Thoughts and Images in their anthology comic Albedo. Kim Thompson at Fantagraphics liked my work and invited me to contribute to his new funny animal series Critters. Usagi was popular enough to get his own series at Fantagraphics. That publisher later cancelled almost all of their general-reader comics such as Critters, Captain Jack, and Eye of Mongombu. All that were left were their mature reader titles such as Love and Rockets, Hate and Eightball. I enjoy those books but Usagi just felt out of place among such books. Mirage Studios had created the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and I had a relation with them (Usagi was in their toy line as well as in their TV series). They wanted to expand their comic book line and invited me to join them. A few years later, the downturn in the American comics market and some serious damage to their studio forced them to discontinue their publishing line. Dark Horse offered to continue the series with no interruption so I signed with them. I still maintain an excellent relationship with all of my publishers.
In the US Fantagraphics still published the first 7 of the Usagi album collections and Dark Horse published the rest as well as a Space Usagi book.
STEFAN PANNOR: Then "Usagi Yojimbo" became a part of Mirage Comics and a part of the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles"-success. You did some crossovers with the Turtles - was that your idea or just some kind of promotion-gag?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi and the Turtles were first published at about the same time and we liked and respected each others' works and I soon became very good friends with Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman, the creators of the Turtles. It was at a San Diego Comic Con when I was sitting next to Peter that he asked if I would like to be a part of their toy line. And so, the first Usagi toy was made. It sold more than 2 million units the first year alone. That led to two appearances in the TV series, a Space Usagi toy, and Mirage being my publisher.
STEFAN PANNOR: Were you doing any crossovers with other characters?
STAN SAKAI: There were a few crossovers such as Usagi in The Space Ark and Usagi Meets Space Usagi but nothing long running or serious. I don't consider these crossovers as part of the Usagi story.
STEFAN PANNOR: Now publishing "Usagi Yojimbo" at Dark Horse - you have free hand to do whatever you want in your book?
STAN SAKAI: I own the character so have always had a free hand to do whatever I want with Usagi. I send in the completed story and it is printed. The only input the publisher has is with thing such as correcting misspelled words and the producing the visual design of the books, and even that need my approval.
STEFAN PANNOR: You're doing "Usagi Yojimbo" on a nearly-monthly-base for 17 years, weren't you sometimes tired of the character? Haven't you sometimes the feeling to go on over to a new world with new characters?
STAN SAKAI: I really enjoy working on the Usagi books and have stories planned for many years to come. I also do other work to break up the monotony. As you pointed out, I still do some lettering. I work with other publisher on their projects such as a back-up series for Jeff Smith's Bone comics call Riblet, I wrote and drew a Simpsons Treehouse of Horror story, I illustrated a Queen and Country story written by Greg Rucka, and I am now doing the art for a Grendel story written by Matt Wagner.
STEFAN PANNOR: What is it that makes this rabbit that important for your work and life?
STAN SAKAI: Drawing Usagi is important to me but more important is working in the comic book field. I think that if I did not create Usagi I would have come up with another character or characters. I enjoy working in the art field but comics in particular.
STEFAN PANNOR: Is there any other comic-book-character you would love to write or draw?
Have you ever thought about doing a superhero- or Disney-comic?
Some comic-creators open their "universe" for other artist, as Matt Wagner with "Grendel" or Mike Mignola with "Hellboy". Have you ever thought about that?
STAN SAKAI: Yes, I have discussed a series called Usagi Yojimbo: Kagemusha which would have stories written and/or drawn by others. But I just do not have the time to follow through with this project. I already have a list of people I would like to participate in this. I think though that this is something that will not happen for awhile.
STEFAN PANNOR: You're writing at least 10 issues of "Usagi Yojimbo" each year - are you writing them all alone?
STAN SAKAI: Except for coloring most of the covers, I do everything myself--writing, art and (in the US) lettering.
STEFAN PANNOR: Would you say you are more of a penciller or more of a writer?
STAN SAKAI: I had this discussion with Sergio Aragones some time ago. He considers himself as a writer who does art. I think of myself as an artist who writes. Either way though, we both are cartoonists, a person who writes as well as draws.
STEFAN PANNOR: How long does it take to write a Usagi-Story? How far are the forthcoming Usagi-Stories up in your head?
STAN SAKAI: The time it takes to produce a 24 page story may vary because of how much research a story may need, how intricate the art is, and other factors such as other projects I am currently working on but usually it takes about 4 weeks. I have plotted special "landmark" stories that I know what I want to do. That gives me a direction to go towards. For example: I wanted to do a long story based on the legendary Grasscutting Sword and so the stories leading up to that epic laid the foundations by introducing characters and setting up the situations for Grasscutter. This is the way I normally work. I have stories that I know I want to do a year from now. However, I may not know the story I will do next month.
STEFAN PANNOR: You do a lot of historical research. Do you do it all alone or do you get some help?
STAN SAKAI: I do the research by myself. I have a fairly extensive library on Japanese history and culture. Also people send me books or magazines that they think I might find useful. I have received help from the Usagi fan website. When I working on Grasscutter, I could not find any visuals of what the sword actually looked like--even old woodblock prints showed it as a katana instead of a tsurugi. I put the word out through the website what I needed and a fan spent about three months in his spare time finding a verifying a picture of it. When I needed pictures of a particular shrine in Japan people sent me to various websites and one person who had vacationed there sent me some of his vacation photos. The Usagi fans are wonderful.
STEFAN PANNOR: How free are you using historically details? Are you using them in the most correct way or are you changing them for the sake of the story to tell?
STAN SAKAI: I try to do as much research as I reasonably can. The story is the most important thing so I may change facts for the sake of the story. For instance: Usagi's adventures take place at the turn of 17th century Japan (circa 1605). I wanted to do a story involving the Japanese theater form kabuki and an onnagata or female impersonator. But kabuki was not established until 1605 and the onnagata came about 30-40 years later. Many times when I do an amount of research I will add story notes at the end of the story explaining the bits of cultures or history that I had used. The notes would include a bibliography of the books, videos, and other references I used.
STEFAN PANNOR: What is it that fascinates you about the Japanese middle-age?
STAN SAKAI: As I said, it is a part of my heritage but it is also an interesting time of Japanese history. It was a time of change politically, socially and culturally. The age of civil wars had just ended with the rise of a shogun or military dictator and so a time of peace was just beginning. This led to a lot of unemployed samurai warriors. Add to this the start of foreigners arriving and the rise of the merchant class and you have a turbulent era of Japanese history. Open warfare was replaced by political intrigue and it was a time of progress but at the same time people were being repressed.
STEFAN PANNOR: Have you ever thought about Usagi leaving Japan, for example to China?
STAN SAKAI: Japanese citizens were not allowed to leave without special permission from the government. In fact, for an average citizen to come in contact with a foreigner was an act of treason punishable by death. As a historical note, Lord Date Masamune who was the inspiration for my Lord Hikiji sent the very first emissaries to Europe to visit the Pope, a mission that ended in failure.
STEFAN PANNOR: Some "Usagi Yojimbo"-stories are used in Japanology-courses. Is that correct?
STAN SAKAI: Yes, Grasscutter is used in Japanese history courses at the University of Portland. There have also been many college theses written on Usagi. I have also received a number of awards for my work: a Parents Choice Award, an Inkpot Award, three Will Eisner Awards, two Spanish Haxtur Awards and a 2002 American Library Association Award. I have heard that the German edition of Usagi has been nominated for a Max-and-Moritz Award.
STEFAN PANNOR: Although you work with Japanese history and use elements of typically manga-story-telling, "Usagi Yojimbo" isn't a big success in Japan. Why?
STAN SAKAI: There has never been a western comic that has made a big impression in the Japanese manga market. True, Usagi is based on Japan history and culture but the storytelling style is very western.
STEFAN PANNOR: Has there ever been a Japanese publishing of "Usagi Yojimbo"?
STAN SAKAI: There has not been a Japanese edition of Usagi. I was in Japan years ago and met anime and manga creators and was surprised that many of them knew of my work.
STEFAN PANNOR: Actually, Manga and Animé are a big success (at least in Germany). Does that influence the sales of "Usagi Yojimbo"?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi is more a western comic book than a manga series. There is some manga influence because I had known about Japanese comic for many years and still use some for reference.
STEFAN PANNOR: Like many other comic-book-characters, there was a projected "Usagi"-TV-Series. Can you tell what happened with that?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi has been optioned many times for a television series or a feature film but so far nothing concrete has come about. I usually do not make a big deal of such options because many things can happen during any stage of development to kill the project. The closest we got was with Space Usagi. An animated short and a series bible were made and we even were offered a time slot on TV. But, for various reasons, it was decided to not go forward with it.
STEFAN PANNOR: According to the fact that Usagi Yojimbo" is the life-story of Miyamoto Usagi (Musashi), there has to be an end? Do you have any plans to bring Usagi’s wanderings to an end?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi was first created as a secondary character in the Nilson Groundthumper epic, though he had not yet appeared in any of the stories. There was a definite ending to that series. However, I preferred working on Usagi and switched my efforts on him. That ending has since become obsolete and Usagi has gone in a completely different direction than what I first imagined for him. Many times a character takes on a life of his own and he determines the "path" his life will take. So it was with Usagi.
(An abbreviated version of this interview was also published in MangasZene #11, May 2002)
UNDERSTANDING USAGI: AN INTERVIEW WITH STAN SAKAI
By STEFAN PANNOR (USAGI YOJIMBO BD. 10, MAY 2002)
Dear Stefan,
Rather than answering all your questions at one time, I will answer them in parts and send them back to you in a series of e-mails. I hope I will not take too long to answer them.
Please feel free to edit my answers.
So here we go with the first part of "Understanding Usagi"! ;-)
STEFAN PANNOR: Tell me about your road to the comics. You were born in Kyoto, then moved to Hawaii. So you've been starting reading Mangas?
STAN SAKAI: My father was in the US Army stationed in Japan. He met and married my mother there and my older brother and I were born in Japan. I was born in 1953. When I was about two years old, we moved to Hawaii where my father was born. His father had emigrated there from Japan so that makes me a third generation Japanese-American. I actually read American comics before manga but I was exposed to some Japanese comics such as Tetsuan Atom and other works by Osamu Tezuka. Years later, I met Dr. Tezuka and my wife and I went to Japan as guests of Tezuka Productions.
STEFAN PANNOR: What were the first comics you read?
STAN SAKAI: I read mainly DC comics and some Disney--mainly Superman, Batman and Uncle Scrooge. I remember buying Fantastic Four #2 off the comics rack. I bought it because it was still 10 cents and DC had just raised their prices to 12 cents. From then on, I read a lot of Marvel comics. The Stan Lee/Steve Ditko Spider-Man was my favorite.
STEFAN PANNOR: Did your parents in any way read comics? And did their reading influence you?
STAN SAKAI: My father would read comics occasionally but really enjoyed novels--westerns and detective stories. My mother read Japanese novels. My older brother Ed was the big comics buyer. He had quite a collection and whenever I bought a comic, I would give it to him and he would let me read his comics for an hour. He later gave me his collection when he lost interest in comics.
STEFAN PANNOR: Were you a comic-fan? What was your earliest connection to the fandom?
STAN SAKAI: I always enjoyed comics but did not know there was such a thing as a comics fandom until I met some other aspiring cartoonists in the 7th grade (this was in the 1960's). We started making our own comics, creating our own characters and stories.
Comics fandom back then was not as organized as it is today. There were no conventions or fanzines or an organized way for fans to contact one another. One day, a magazine about comics showed up in my mailbox. It was from Texas (I still have no idea how they got my name or address) and it had advertisements for people wanting to buy and sell comics and selling their own books. That was my first introduction to real comics fandom.
STEFAN PANNOR: When did you start drawing?
STAN SAKAI: I've always enjoyed drawing and I enjoyed comics but I never put the two together. I did not even consider that there were real people writing the stories or doing the art. Comics for me were just something that magically appeared in the stores every week. It was not until Marvel put credits that I realized that there were people creating these books. I did not know how a comic was made until Lee and Ditko did a short story of how they create a Spider-Man story as a back-up in Spider-Man Annual #1. I later told Stan Lee that I learned how to draw comics from that short story and he just laughed.
But, back to your question. As I said, I always enjoyed drawing but did not take my first art class until high school--the 11th grade. My teacher was very encouraging and entered my work in a lot of art shows. She just retired and we still keep in touch. I dedicated one of my books to her.
STEFAN PANNOR: You've been drawing comics since then? What kind of profession did you learn?
STAN SAKAI: I majored in art while at the University of Hawaii, concentrating on drawing and painting. I was also doing free-lance art for magazines, advertising, t-shirts and anything else that would buy my art.
STEFAN PANNOR: Your first comic-creation I think was "Nilson Groundthumper", published first in 1980. Would you tell me something about this character?
STAN SAKAI: Nilson was first published in Albedo Comics in 1984. He's a wandering rabbit with a guinea pig friend named Hermy. Whereas Usagi's adventures take place in feudal Japan, Nilson lives in Europe at that same time. The Nilson stories are much more humorous and much less researched.
STEFAN PANNOR: When and how did you meet Sergio Aragonés?
STAN SAKAI: I've known Sergio for about 24 years. We had a mutual friend who lives in Hawaii. When I moved to California I called Sergio and he invited me to a CAPS meeting. The Comic Arts Professional Society is a cartoonists' organization in Los Angeles. It's a social organization that meets monthly. At one time we had members such as Jack Kirby, Doug Wildey, Dave Stevens, Mark Evanier, and William Stout. Anyway, I met Sergio at that meeting and we have been friends ever since.
STEFAN PANNOR: Your first professional job in the comic-book-industry was the lettering for Sergio’s "Groo the wanderer"? Wasn't that a surprise for you? Didn't you see yourself as penciling artist?
STAN SAKAI: I was doing freelance art in Los Angeles and I also taught calligraphy classes. Sergio needed a letterer for his new comic and asked me. I accepted, of course. I still enjoy working with him and Mark Evanier and have learned a lot from both of them.
STEFAN PANNOR: You did a lot of lettering for different comic books. Would you name some?
STAN SAKAI: I also did lettering for many of the American Disney comics as well as a few newspaper comic strips. I enjoy lettering in that it is very relaxing and mechanical. I don't have to worry so much about composition, anatomy or story. I get the art pages and the script and get working.
But I am very picky about what books I letter. I'm not saying that I am a terrific letterer, but it is just something I do on the side. I still prefer drawing.
STEFAN PANNOR: You received some awards for your lettering. What would you say is the special Stan-Sakai-way of lettering?
STAN SAKAI: I don't think I have any special method. Like artists, every letterer has a distinctive style. I have developed a style that complements my drawing. That is another reason I am very pleased with the current German editions of Usagi because the publisher has used my lettering style in that book.
STEFAN PANNOR: Are you still lettering the "Spider-Man"-dailies?
STAN SAKAI: Actually, I only letter the Sundays. Yes. Stan Lee was the first name I associated with comics. His name was on all my favorites so when he asked me to letter for him, I accepted. At that time, it was the only thing he was personally writing. I would not have imagined I would one day be working with Stan. He is a wonderful man. He provided an introduction to one of the Usagi albums.
STEFAN PANNOR: The first appearance of Usagi Yojimbo was in 1985. Did you do any other comics except Nilson between 1980 and `85?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi was created in 1982 but never appeared in print until 1984 when Albedo #2 featured a Usagi cover and short story. As I said earlier, Nilson also first appeared in 1984, in Albedo #1.
STEFAN PANNOR: Let’s talk about your way to Usagi Yojimbo. The main-influence to that character was the samurai and philosopher Miyamoto Musashi. Why especially this person?
STAN SAKAI: I wanted to do a comic book about something other than the superheroes that were and still are dominant in the American comic book market. I was drawn to Musashi because I had known about him for a while through various books and movies. He was not just an innovative swordsman but, as you said, a philosopher as well as a poet and artist. I also wanted to do something involving my Japanese heritage.
STEFAN PANNOR: Can you name any other historically influences as well as other influences that lead directly towards the character of Usagi Yojimbo?
STAN SAKAI: Musashi was very important in the creation of Usagi but my character really has very little to do with the historical Musashi aside from being a wandering swordsman using the two-swords style. Other historical persons have led to the creation of other characters, though. My Tomoe Ame was inspired by Tomoe Gozen, a samurai woman who lived during the Gempei Wars. She was famous for her beauty and skill with the spear. Lord Hikiji was based on Date Masamune, lord of Sendai. He was one of the most powerful lords in feudal Japan and also aspired to become Shogun. Other characters have been influenced by pop culture. The manga and movie series Lone Wolf and Cub became Lone Goat and Kid and Zato-Ichi the blind swordsman from the movies became Zato-Ino the blind swordspig who "sees" with his nose.
STEFAN PANNOR: First you tried to do a realistic comic-book with Miyamoto? When and why did you turn over to do an animal-strip?
STAN SAKAI: As you said, I first wanted to do a more realistic comic book but still involving some fantasy--much like the Hal Foster Prince Valiant stories. However, one day I sketched out a rabbit with his ears tied up in a "chonmage" or samurai topknot and liked the design. So Miyamoto Musashi became Miyamoto Usagi ("Usagi" means "rabbit" or "hare" in Japanese). I thought of making Usagi the only animal in an all human world much like Dave Sim's Cerebus, but decided it just did not work for me and made it an all-animal world instead.
STEFAN PANNOR: In Japan the rabbit is a symbol for luck. Was that the cause for doing Usagi as a rabbit - or was it just about the word-game Musashi-Usagi?
STAN SAKAI: It was because of the visuals. The rabbit with his ears tied up just looked so good. It was a simple design but unique and very striking. It was very fortunate that the rabbit has such a good connotation in Japanese culture unlike the badger which is very mischievous and sometimes evil.
STEFAN PANNOR: Did the animal-status of the other main-characters mean anything special? If you create a new character, how did you come to his animal-status?
STAN SAKAI: It works both ways. Sometimes I think of a character's personality and try to create a visual to match it. Usagi's teacher Katsuichi was created this way. I needed someone strong and imposing and regal and so Katsuichi became a lion. I also borrowed his costume and great flowing mane from a famous kabuki play about a father and son lion. Other times I may come up with visual I really like and try to write a story around it. The whole Usagi Yojimbo series came about this way.
STEFAN PANNOR: There ain't much rabbits in the world of Usagi. Does that mean they're something special?
STAN SAKAI: I try not to overuse rabbits in Usagi's world just to make him special to the reader. However, he is not anything special in terms of the story--that is he is not treated any different than a cat or dog characters.
STEFAN PANNOR: You've created just one human character for "Usagi Yojimbo", the Master Hikiji. Was that just an idea or did you intend something special with that?
STAN SAKAI: I showed Hikiji as a human in one panel and regretted it ever since. At that time, I had a specific story direction I was going toward but those stories have been changed. I originally thought Hikiji would be a Sauron-like character (from Lord of the Rings) whose presence is always felt but he is not really seen.
STEFAN PANNOR: Have you ever thought about doing Usagi as a daily newspaper-strip - like Jeff Smith first did with "Bone"?
STAN SAKAI: Stan Lee once encouraged me to do a newspaper strip but I do not think Usagi would work in that format. Newspaper strips here tend to be very conservative and pretty much all do the same thing, usually a joke-a-day format. Usagi's stories are adventures and the days of the adventure strips--Steve Canyon, Terry and the Pirates, even Popeye-- have long passed away. Besides I would not like to work with a deadline every day.
STEFAN PANNOR: Have you thought about self-publishing "Usagi Yojimbo", like Dave Sim with "Cerebus"?
STAN SAKAI: Sergio had encouraged me to self-publish but publishing is a full time job in itself. I prefer to spend that extra time writing or drawing. Besides, if I self-published, I would need to hire assistants whereas I like to do everything myself. I have always enjoyed my relationships with my various publishers. Our agreements have always been where they would leave me alone and I will send them the stories. They do no have input in the storylines or art so I have a wonderful freedom that most comic book artists in the US do not have. Of course, when I work on other people's characters, I work according to their guidelines such as when I did stories for The Simpsons or Matt Wagner's Grendel.
STEFAN PANNOR: The first Usagi-Stories were published at Albedo and didn't sell very well. But you didn't stop to draw the rabbit. What was your motivation to go on?
STAN SAKAI: Albedo came out at a time when black and white comics were not very popular. The publisher printed about 2,000 comics which quickly sold out and became highly collectible. They originally sold for $1.50. A copy sold on e-bay last year for more than $650.00. But you are right in that we did not get rich doing comics at that time. However, I received a lot of positive comments about my work and I wanted to continue drawing Usagi. I still had a lot of other work doing art to help support me and my family and did Usagi in my spare time. Now it is the other way around where Usagi is my full time job and I do other work in my spare time.
STEFAN PANNOR: The earliest Usagi-Stories were evidently cuter, the characters were drawn with larger heads and smaller bodies. Did you intend to do it as a funny book and if so, why did you change your mind to do a more sophisticated comic?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi's appearance changed on his own as my art style matured. It was completely unconscious on my part. It was never intended to be a humorous comic but I just wanted to tell the kind of stories that I wanted to read. Some stories were serious, some were humorous, there were mysteries and some straight adventures. When I wanted to tell science fiction stories I created Space Usagi, a descendant of the original Usagi Yojimbo.
STEFAN PANNOR: Before you turned over to your current publisher Dark Horse, "Usagi Yojimbo" was published at Fantagraphics and Mirage. What was your first contact to Fantagraphics and why did you left them?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi was first published by Thoughts and Images in their anthology comic Albedo. Kim Thompson at Fantagraphics liked my work and invited me to contribute to his new funny animal series Critters. Usagi was popular enough to get his own series at Fantagraphics. That publisher later cancelled almost all of their general-reader comics such as Critters, Captain Jack, and Eye of Mongombu. All that were left were their mature reader titles such as Love and Rockets, Hate and Eightball. I enjoy those books but Usagi just felt out of place among such books. Mirage Studios had created the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and I had a relation with them (Usagi was in their toy line as well as in their TV series). They wanted to expand their comic book line and invited me to join them. A few years later, the downturn in the American comics market and some serious damage to their studio forced them to discontinue their publishing line. Dark Horse offered to continue the series with no interruption so I signed with them. I still maintain an excellent relationship with all of my publishers.
In the US Fantagraphics still published the first 7 of the Usagi album collections and Dark Horse published the rest as well as a Space Usagi book.
STEFAN PANNOR: Then "Usagi Yojimbo" became a part of Mirage Comics and a part of the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles"-success. You did some crossovers with the Turtles - was that your idea or just some kind of promotion-gag?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi and the Turtles were first published at about the same time and we liked and respected each others' works and I soon became very good friends with Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman, the creators of the Turtles. It was at a San Diego Comic Con when I was sitting next to Peter that he asked if I would like to be a part of their toy line. And so, the first Usagi toy was made. It sold more than 2 million units the first year alone. That led to two appearances in the TV series, a Space Usagi toy, and Mirage being my publisher.
STEFAN PANNOR: Were you doing any crossovers with other characters?
STAN SAKAI: There were a few crossovers such as Usagi in The Space Ark and Usagi Meets Space Usagi but nothing long running or serious. I don't consider these crossovers as part of the Usagi story.
STEFAN PANNOR: Now publishing "Usagi Yojimbo" at Dark Horse - you have free hand to do whatever you want in your book?
STAN SAKAI: I own the character so have always had a free hand to do whatever I want with Usagi. I send in the completed story and it is printed. The only input the publisher has is with thing such as correcting misspelled words and the producing the visual design of the books, and even that need my approval.
STEFAN PANNOR: You're doing "Usagi Yojimbo" on a nearly-monthly-base for 17 years, weren't you sometimes tired of the character? Haven't you sometimes the feeling to go on over to a new world with new characters?
STAN SAKAI: I really enjoy working on the Usagi books and have stories planned for many years to come. I also do other work to break up the monotony. As you pointed out, I still do some lettering. I work with other publisher on their projects such as a back-up series for Jeff Smith's Bone comics call Riblet, I wrote and drew a Simpsons Treehouse of Horror story, I illustrated a Queen and Country story written by Greg Rucka, and I am now doing the art for a Grendel story written by Matt Wagner.
STEFAN PANNOR: What is it that makes this rabbit that important for your work and life?
STAN SAKAI: Drawing Usagi is important to me but more important is working in the comic book field. I think that if I did not create Usagi I would have come up with another character or characters. I enjoy working in the art field but comics in particular.
STEFAN PANNOR: Is there any other comic-book-character you would love to write or draw?
Have you ever thought about doing a superhero- or Disney-comic?
Some comic-creators open their "universe" for other artist, as Matt Wagner with "Grendel" or Mike Mignola with "Hellboy". Have you ever thought about that?
STAN SAKAI: Yes, I have discussed a series called Usagi Yojimbo: Kagemusha which would have stories written and/or drawn by others. But I just do not have the time to follow through with this project. I already have a list of people I would like to participate in this. I think though that this is something that will not happen for awhile.
STEFAN PANNOR: You're writing at least 10 issues of "Usagi Yojimbo" each year - are you writing them all alone?
STAN SAKAI: Except for coloring most of the covers, I do everything myself--writing, art and (in the US) lettering.
STEFAN PANNOR: Would you say you are more of a penciller or more of a writer?
STAN SAKAI: I had this discussion with Sergio Aragones some time ago. He considers himself as a writer who does art. I think of myself as an artist who writes. Either way though, we both are cartoonists, a person who writes as well as draws.
STEFAN PANNOR: How long does it take to write a Usagi-Story? How far are the forthcoming Usagi-Stories up in your head?
STAN SAKAI: The time it takes to produce a 24 page story may vary because of how much research a story may need, how intricate the art is, and other factors such as other projects I am currently working on but usually it takes about 4 weeks. I have plotted special "landmark" stories that I know what I want to do. That gives me a direction to go towards. For example: I wanted to do a long story based on the legendary Grasscutting Sword and so the stories leading up to that epic laid the foundations by introducing characters and setting up the situations for Grasscutter. This is the way I normally work. I have stories that I know I want to do a year from now. However, I may not know the story I will do next month.
STEFAN PANNOR: You do a lot of historical research. Do you do it all alone or do you get some help?
STAN SAKAI: I do the research by myself. I have a fairly extensive library on Japanese history and culture. Also people send me books or magazines that they think I might find useful. I have received help from the Usagi fan website. When I working on Grasscutter, I could not find any visuals of what the sword actually looked like--even old woodblock prints showed it as a katana instead of a tsurugi. I put the word out through the website what I needed and a fan spent about three months in his spare time finding a verifying a picture of it. When I needed pictures of a particular shrine in Japan people sent me to various websites and one person who had vacationed there sent me some of his vacation photos. The Usagi fans are wonderful.
STEFAN PANNOR: How free are you using historically details? Are you using them in the most correct way or are you changing them for the sake of the story to tell?
STAN SAKAI: I try to do as much research as I reasonably can. The story is the most important thing so I may change facts for the sake of the story. For instance: Usagi's adventures take place at the turn of 17th century Japan (circa 1605). I wanted to do a story involving the Japanese theater form kabuki and an onnagata or female impersonator. But kabuki was not established until 1605 and the onnagata came about 30-40 years later. Many times when I do an amount of research I will add story notes at the end of the story explaining the bits of cultures or history that I had used. The notes would include a bibliography of the books, videos, and other references I used.
STEFAN PANNOR: What is it that fascinates you about the Japanese middle-age?
STAN SAKAI: As I said, it is a part of my heritage but it is also an interesting time of Japanese history. It was a time of change politically, socially and culturally. The age of civil wars had just ended with the rise of a shogun or military dictator and so a time of peace was just beginning. This led to a lot of unemployed samurai warriors. Add to this the start of foreigners arriving and the rise of the merchant class and you have a turbulent era of Japanese history. Open warfare was replaced by political intrigue and it was a time of progress but at the same time people were being repressed.
STEFAN PANNOR: Have you ever thought about Usagi leaving Japan, for example to China?
STAN SAKAI: Japanese citizens were not allowed to leave without special permission from the government. In fact, for an average citizen to come in contact with a foreigner was an act of treason punishable by death. As a historical note, Lord Date Masamune who was the inspiration for my Lord Hikiji sent the very first emissaries to Europe to visit the Pope, a mission that ended in failure.
STEFAN PANNOR: Some "Usagi Yojimbo"-stories are used in Japanology-courses. Is that correct?
STAN SAKAI: Yes, Grasscutter is used in Japanese history courses at the University of Portland. There have also been many college theses written on Usagi. I have also received a number of awards for my work: a Parents Choice Award, an Inkpot Award, three Will Eisner Awards, two Spanish Haxtur Awards and a 2002 American Library Association Award. I have heard that the German edition of Usagi has been nominated for a Max-and-Moritz Award.
STEFAN PANNOR: Although you work with Japanese history and use elements of typically manga-story-telling, "Usagi Yojimbo" isn't a big success in Japan. Why?
STAN SAKAI: There has never been a western comic that has made a big impression in the Japanese manga market. True, Usagi is based on Japan history and culture but the storytelling style is very western.
STEFAN PANNOR: Has there ever been a Japanese publishing of "Usagi Yojimbo"?
STAN SAKAI: There has not been a Japanese edition of Usagi. I was in Japan years ago and met anime and manga creators and was surprised that many of them knew of my work.
STEFAN PANNOR: Actually, Manga and Animé are a big success (at least in Germany). Does that influence the sales of "Usagi Yojimbo"?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi is more a western comic book than a manga series. There is some manga influence because I had known about Japanese comic for many years and still use some for reference.
STEFAN PANNOR: Like many other comic-book-characters, there was a projected "Usagi"-TV-Series. Can you tell what happened with that?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi has been optioned many times for a television series or a feature film but so far nothing concrete has come about. I usually do not make a big deal of such options because many things can happen during any stage of development to kill the project. The closest we got was with Space Usagi. An animated short and a series bible were made and we even were offered a time slot on TV. But, for various reasons, it was decided to not go forward with it.
STEFAN PANNOR: According to the fact that Usagi Yojimbo" is the life-story of Miyamoto Usagi (Musashi), there has to be an end? Do you have any plans to bring Usagi’s wanderings to an end?
STAN SAKAI: Usagi was first created as a secondary character in the Nilson Groundthumper epic, though he had not yet appeared in any of the stories. There was a definite ending to that series. However, I preferred working on Usagi and switched my efforts on him. That ending has since become obsolete and Usagi has gone in a completely different direction than what I first imagined for him. Many times a character takes on a life of his own and he determines the "path" his life will take. So it was with Usagi.
(An abbreviated version of this interview was also published in MangasZene #11, May 2002)