Three Gray Fandoms

[ursulav]

So a lot of conversation is going on at the moment, post-Worldcon, about just how weird the demographics were, and that leads to “I’m tired of all this ageism” and while I am arguably not the most interesting or insightful on that matter, nor do I have a lot of experience with Worldcons, but hey, it’s the Internet, and when did that ever stop

Comments

[ext_196686]

Well, at the time, Asimov and Sturgeon weren't dead either (though I believe they were at the time still both male and white). And there's a difference between what a publisher wants to publish to make money from a general audience and what a group of authors will set themselves as a challenge for fun and education between themselves. Writing challenges are hardly unique to "modern transformative fandom" - eg. the two versions of 'Ozymandias' by Shelley and Smith (which they managed to get published in the same magazine only one month apart).

I'm also not sure what the point is of stressing that traditional fandom is specifically the church of the dead WHITE MALE author. Is it really a major problem in traditional fandom at the moment that people don't think black women can write fantasy? Because in that case people must have been very confused when, for instance, Octavia Butler won two Nebulas and two Hugos, since she was neither white nor male. In fact, who is who holds the most records for Hugos for fiction? Why yes, it's Connie Willis, who the modern traditional "Church of the Dead White Male Author" is madly in love with and gives Hugos to every time she moves - she's won as many Hugos in the last fifteen years alone as Asimov won (for fiction) in his entire career! Of the five most Hugo-nominated authors, two are women.

I just happened to look at the 2011 Hugos (Willis' last win), and the people she beat: 4 out of the 5 Best Novel finalists were women. 2/5 finalists in Best Novella, only 1/5 in Best Novellette, but 3/4 in Best Short Story. At the last ten Worldcons, 4 out of the 10 Best Novels were written by women. Etc etc.

Of course, that doesn't address or excuse the possibility of language and behaviour unfriendly to women at worldcons - I wouldn't know, I've never been there. But in terms of the Authors that Worldcon attendees are members of a Church of, it really doesn't look like they're exclusively Male! [It's harder to tell how white they are, since I don't know many of the names, nor what percentage black authors would make up in a perfect world]

It's all very well talking about how only modern fandom is "transformative", but Old Fandom gave awards to people like Le Guin and Delany (can't get more Dead White Male Author than Delany, the black gay erotica writer from Harlem who at the time was in a non-exclusive and polyamorous marriage with a lesbian woman, and who won (or has won, so far) two Hugos with another seven nominations, plus four Nebulas for good luck, and is in the SF Hall of Fame - how much more Establishment and Non-Transformative can a man get?)

[ext_196686]

Just to clarify that point about behaviour at cons: that issue is different from the issue of who gets acclaimed. It may well be (again, never been, don't know) that Old Fandom is a church that doesn't want women in its congregation... but it sure doesn't seem to have a problem having women among its saints and idols.

[starcat_jewel]

It's really a Big Four -- Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke, and Heinlein. And just try mentioning that you like some of Heinlein's stuff, but you don't care for his constant refrain that strong, independent women with established careers and lives of their own find Real Happiness by giving up all that to become baby factories! Suddenly you're an AngryManhatingFeministBitch.

(Incidentally, I haven't read most of the later Heinlein stuff myself. Sneer at me about it and I'll sneer right back, and maybe get snobby about more-modern authors that I've read. It works a treat -- they're so surprised that I don't cringe in shame that I can make my getaway while they're still sputtering.)