So I’m Feeling My Way Through An Alternate History…

[ursulav]

…and I could use some help, because I am sort of throwing down crap and it is entirely possible that there is a decisive factor that could make the whole timeline Basically Stupid.

Caveat the First: I have absolutely no idea what I’m doing, my entire knowledge of this era is from Wikipedia and a fold out map a friend of mine had in college. I

Comments

[fatfred]

I have friends who could probably tell you what kind of underwear they wore when, but the Crusades are not my thing. If you need anything specific I can ask for you!
BUT... St Otter?????

[tuftears]

St. Cuthbert and the Otters

[fatfred]

That is so cool! Thank you for the link!

[tuftears]

Makes you wonder if St. Cuthbert was a were-otter, dunnit?

[ruggels]

Okay. this is actually fairly juicy. The things that come to mind is that Islamis inherently expansionist,and one of the things that checked the expansion was the Arabs slapping down the insufficiently pious Egyptians of the time, for actually engaging in Trade with Constantinople. Saladin himself was a Kurd, and that was the core competency of his organization were relatives and friends from back home, as they were seen as steadier, than their more volatile Tribal Arab Allies. Without a fighting defense, the Forces of Islam would move north, and west much more aggressively. Charles Martel-like figures would need to take place in other countries, or you would see most of Greece, as well as the Balkans become Islamic. The Trans-caucases would probably have to step up earlier to defend the faith.

The thing you would be missing from this is the absolutely juicy, telenovela, style politics of Constantinople and the Byzantine Empire. The other thing is the orthodox Church converting people as fast as they could in the Balkans and

[siliconshaman]

I'd go with the 'used to scare small children' idea myself... Can you imagine what a Templar knight who's some form of lycan would be like. never mind scaring small children, those tales probably keep town guards awake.

[ursulav]

Well, the monk in question is a bee-keeper, now that you mention it... I think the orders of the Boar and St. Aurochs are probably gonna be the really unpleasant ones in combat. Perhaps St. Canis could get involved too.

I am deeply ignorant of the politics of Constantinople and the Byzantine Empire. Assuming that the death of Saladin and internal infighting has halted further expansion, whereabouts are our hypothetical three forces (Saracens, Byzantines, Westerners) most likely bordered?

Where would our hypothetical hero fighting the hypothetical Byzantine army back in the day have traveled to?

[laughingacademy]

I was going to ask if you were familiar with the Brother Cadfael mysteries, which center around a crimesolving crusader-turned-monk (and gardener and apothecary), but I they're set a century earlier than your proposed timeframe.

[ursulav]

*grin* They're a large part of the inspiration--I liked them, but found some elements lacking. (Not enough were-bears, obviously.) As is usual with me, when I didn't quite find what it was after, I wanted to write it. But it needed nuns. And were-bears. And didn't need Crusaders, because everybody's done Crusaders already.

[zylch]

A century earlier than the possible book, true -- but one would need to have a reasonable understanding of the history immediately before the proposed timeline change, also, to make sure it all made sense. I certainly wouldn't recommend taking the Cadfael series as any kind of authoritative source on monastic living in England in the years leading up to this story, but it's a very enjoyable way to get the *flavor* of what's it's like, at least for the Benedictines.

I have to imagine that this order is an off-shoot of the Franciscans, though -- I can't imagine the Dominicans putting up with them!

[ursulav]

Okay, if the word Byzantine is a later one, I'm not married to it! What would they be? (I think 'Roman' is likely to be too confusing, though...)

I don't need to whump them! They can be unwhumped! I just want the hero to have fought somebody that for once isn't the predictable Crusade/Saracen thing, and it seems to me that sacking Constantinople probably left a lot of people very angry, and maybe the Eastern Orthodox Church is not keen on lycanthropes, so they'd make a much better enemy.

I am willing to have them be an honorable and still mostly intact foe! The hero's retired and hundreds of miles away!

[ursulav]

Hmm, I could go with Rhoman, I suppose, but I'd honestly prefer something a smidge different...

[archangelbeth]

Remlan? *ducks, runs, turns into a wolf and runs faster*

Hmm.

[leecetheartist]

I was going to suggest Tim Powers' The Drawing of the Dark as background reading but a look at it reminds me that is set far later. It's a good read anyway, a historical fantasy about a magical pub and the struggle between East and West. No, really.

If you think Crusader Fever is too twee, how about the Christian Plague?

Re: Hmm.

[paradigmshifty]

I second this book suggestion. An excellent book!

Re: Hmm.

[fatfred]

I third this.
And I have a copy Ursula can borrow if needs be.

Re: Hmm.

[mean_waffle]

I don't remember where I picked it up, but I read somewhere that the Saracens thought of all Crusaders as Franks. It could also be the Frankish Plague.