Elena Gilbert and fanfiction
I'm in the middle of finals right now, so I'm trying very hard NOT to do anything particularly time-consuming in fandom (you can't imagine how many fic and meta ideas I have when I look at my vocabulary handouts...), but I had this awesome discussion with youcallitwinter about how Elena is depicted in fanfiction, and now I have loads and loads of questions!
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Here I am. Being a terrible friend.
I find that when I write Elena, most often what I'm trying to achieve with her is honesty. That's my main goal--to have her be honest, and usually that leads to her being forthcoming about her feelings. I've written her as angry some of the time in that effort, but since all most of my fic is Damon/Elena with the goal of getting them together by the end, that's what's going on. Sometimes though, I've found her to be passive when it comes to anger, but she'll get there eventually. Other times the anger is very close to the surface and easy to explore.
Having read the thread between you and Zoe, I have to say, it's so weird, the whole virgin thing. It's never bothered me that Elena obviously had multiple sexual partners. Comparisons of her experiences with (and I do subscribe to the school of thought that Matt was her first, and then Stefan, simply because she was 17. She also said she'd never not had a boyfriend in high school, and Matt was her boyfriend before Stefan, so that just added up for me) each of them do sometimes come up in the course of a story. I mean, I can remember having thoughts about it and having her reference things in her head, but I don't remember thinking of it as *better than* in anyway other than experience. I would hope Stefan and Damon would be more sexually experienced and possibly more adept than Matt, since they're like 10 times older than him. But I've also always thought of whatever *goodness* is connotated with the experience is because of the emotions involved, not the mechanics.
Additionally, one of my all-time favorite D/E fics is not perfect to me, though all the rest of it is excellent, because of this aspect. I remember there being something about Stefan not satisfying Elena--like he was a selfish lover (just rolling over and leaving her to herself), not just that they didn't both get off one time or something, and I remember it making me feel like it was sloppy characterization of Stefan, who strikes me as someone who would be most deferential in bed--just out of good manners, you know? Damon would be all about his pride and all that, but Stefan would just think it's rude to do that to a girl. Besides, just because Elena had good sex with Stefan, doesn't mean she can't have good sex with Damon and still love him more/better/different because of their compatibility based on other merits.
Good grief, how did this comment get so long? See, it's just terrible, and I'm terrible, and I hope you are already off doing something else so you don't see this until tomorrow. Not to mention it's terribly off topic.
Anywho...
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I've written her as angry some of the time in that effort
I mostly write her angry, but I rarely go into the theme of honesty. It's mostly because, at some point, some discussions in D/E fandom pissed me off, and now I see red when I hear about Elena being "self-deceiving" and in need to achieve honesty. I know that I'm overdoing it, and that Elena actually is self-deceptive to some extent, but I can't help it. Out of spite, I tend to write extremely self-aware Elena.I'm probably beyond help.
Additionally, one of my all-time favorite D/E fics is not perfect to me, though all the rest of it is excellent, because of this aspect. I remember there being something about Stefan not satisfying Elena--like he was a selfish lover
I actually grew to enjoy the trope of Damon being not such a good lover. I mean, he's spent a century treating women as toys, compelling them, using and abusing them. He didn't have to care about their sexual needs. Of course he also has his romantic delusions, so it's possible that he was actually paying attention and catering to those women's desires just for the sake of making a show for himself, so I don't mind it when I read a fic where Damon is a good lover, but I don't think it's the only possible scenario? I could easily see Damon as a selfish, boring lover who doesn't listen to the signals his partner is sending -- simply because, for a century, he didn't have to care. I think there should be some fic depicting him like that -- for the sake of diversity, if not for any other reason.
It wasn't offtopic at all! You gave me many thinky thoughts! \o/
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The self-aware thing is such a point of subtext and interpretation, and it does really depend on where you are on the scale. I've had lots of conversations with people throughout fandom about how Jenna, Kelly, and Carol seemed to be the only ones truly enamored of Damon--when, let's face it, he's ridiculously good looking. The idea that Elena doesn't find him attractive/isn't attracted to him/doesn't have feelings greater than friendship for him are all subjective -- like what level is she at? I think it's reflective of the author, because I write her at a greater level of all of those things because that's how I feel about Damon. For you, you tend to get rebellious in context to the status quo, and want to write or explore something more interesting to you than that, so your version of Elena is less emotionally involved with Damon, even if she's physically involved. Zoe does that, too. And while I enjoy a good fic like that, I find that it doesn't satisfy me. Hence, the other.
As for Damon -- and since you brought this up, I'll just say this is where I'll probably get very wordy -- my interpretation of his character has always been, based on the physical interactions he has with Caroline in early S1, he does go the pleasing route (it's a Pride in Performance issue). And I think because he feels some regret or remorse (even though he claims none), that's his way of making it up to them, for taking their blood. Now, here's the thing, I said this all to Zoe once, and she was all: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT DAMON DOES IN THE BOOKS! To which, I was like, Well, done, Mr. Somerhalder, in somehow conveying that in your performance, because I have never read the books! Now, don't get me wrong: emotionally, he's completely abusive; compulsion aside, he's just an ass to Caroline all the time--which that, to me, was always because Caroline reminds him of himself and it's this horrible thing where he inflicts all these terrible judgments upon her but it's really about him.
Now, that's not to say I can't get on board with the callous side of it, and see Damon even darker as you describe, but it's not how I think he generally operates. The 'snatch, feed, erase,' business always struck me as ironic, too. He likes killing people sometimes, sure, as we see with the lying in the road stuff, but he doesn't do it all the time. Sometimes he just finds some snacks, uses them, and then sends them on their merry way. Why would he do that? Because he's just playing at the monster bit, it's not who he is at his base. And with the new info they revealed about Sage and her *pleasure* lessons this season, I'm even more convinced that that became his thing. Not to mention his own sexual issues, that we've touched on before. He's sort of regulated himself to, in many ways, the 'good-for-one-thing' position of a good fuck as opposed to any deep emotional connection. He did it with Rose, he did it with Andie (and even went so far as to compel her with his secrets, as well as building a fake relationship with her--he doesn't want to be alone, but he won't let it be real). So, basically, what it boils down to is that all he has to offer is that he's good in bed. Which, based on Rebekah's reaction to him, I think is true.
And, to bring this all around to how it's about ME, I have this weird thing that when I find characterization that I really believe it, I have a hard time deviating from it. So, I can read other interpretations, but I have a hard time writing Damon or Elena other than how I see them. That's not to say that they haven't surprised me in fic though--and completely derailed stories I intended to tell. But that's the fun of it really. Where it might lead.
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Oooooh, good point, I do tend to interpret D/E a lot like Zoe does! When I read her fic, I often react with: "YES, this is my Damon and this is my Elena".
The idea that Elena doesn't find him attractive/isn't attracted to him/doesn't have feelings greater than friendship for him are all subjective -- like what level is she at?
I have a complicated relationship with this thing. ever-neutral once pointed out that Damon and Elena are both very similar people (which is where their "understanding" is coming from -- they both have a tendency of projecting their own feelings and thoughts on other people, but when they do it with each other, they just happen to be right -- because they have similar personality types, so it's shamefully easy for them to read each other), and Elena's first instinct is to remain very close to Damon. But, at the same time, this connection scares her on a fundamental level. She doesn't want to be this kind of person. She has very strong feelings for him (they both "feel too much"), but she doesn't act on them, she keeps rejecting him, because this is not who she wants to be. She's not being delusional, she's not deceiving herself, she's making a choice to try to not be a Damon -- and, in order to do that, she has to push away Damon as a person, and suppress her feelings for him. This is why I'm so much into D/E, it's so closely combined with constructing identities and making choices about the self. So, weirdly enough, I agree with you that Elena feels very strongly for Damon (it doesn't matter that she refuses to put a name to this), but I also think that she has a very good reason to push him away. It's not about Damon being bad for her, it's all about her not wanting to become a Damon. Basically, I view Elena as experiencing "the rage of Caliban seeing his own face in a glass", which is fascinating for me both as a viewer and as a writer (see how I managed to make it ALL ABOUT ELENA again?...).
And, to bring this all around to how it's about ME, I have this weird thing that when I find characterization that I really believe it, I have a hard time deviating from it.
See, I'm different. When I'm bored, I enjoy turning my own interpretations upside down just to see what would happen. I like to try different kinds of characterization just for the sake of experiment. So, while I think that your interpretation of Damon's MO makes all the sense within canon, and if I was writing meta, I'd probably go for something very similar, I'm also madly in love with the idea of Damon not being a very good lover as a premise for a fic. Because if the sex is not that mindblowing, and yet Elena is still sleeping with him, why does she do it? This interpretation allows me to push aside those aspects of their relationship that are often explored in fic in order to make other aspects more visible.
Basically, my problem is that I have a one-track mind (so when I get into one ship/character, I stay for months, and it's difficult for me to write other things), but I'm also restless (so I get bored if I don't write stories based on very different premises). Most writers who are restless like that just deal by trying out new characters and new ships, I stick to one set of characters and try out alternative interpretations of them. Like, although I don't think that Damon and Elena will ever have a fully functional, established relationship, I could probably write a fic in which they do -- just to see what would happen!
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I guess this would also explain why you'd read fic even when you fundamentally disagree with the characterization? Because that's the truth of it--I would never think you'd read my fic. I mean, I can read a ficlet where it's not exactly the characterization I envision, but long fics? Forgetaboutit. I never read that stuff. I only commit to multi-chapters that I really see things I agree with, or feel is true when I'm reading it. Like that example of the poor Stefan characterization? That almost made me quit the fic, but the other characterization was so strong, I decided to overlook it. But that is really, really rare of me. I'm a total fic snob.
As for your take on why Elena rejects Damon, I can embrace that explanation totally--but in fic, I would feel this drive to help her embrace it. I mean, ultimately, that's what I want to happen on the show too, so of course I'd fic that way if I bothered to fic at all. I'm sort of like, wash, rinse, repeat as desired, I guess. :D Which is totally boring, I know.
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Well, you can imagine how shocked I was when I saw one of my fics on your D/E rec list XD. Honestly? I'd LOVE to be picky, but there aren't enough authors I agree with.
I mean, ultimately, that's what I want to happen on the show too
That's another difference: I don't really care about that. There's a saying in my language (quite a silly one, but bear with me) that when you're chasing a bunny, it's not about catching it, it's about the chase. D/E as it is now is perfect for me. They're interesting, they're dynamic, they have fascinating motivations. So I don't really care if Elena overcomes her Damon-related issues, because what's important for me is that her issues are interesting. I'm waiting for them to get together in the show, because I think that it may bring awesome character development, but it'd also be possible for the writers to write a story in which they don't get together that I'd be satisfied with.
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There isn't enough good D/E fic, period. I wrote so much myself between October 2010 and September 2011 that it didn't matter, but now that I've chilled out it kills me. I want more, and I want it good.
but it'd also be possible for the writers to write a story in which they don't get together that I'd be satisfied with.
Oh, sure. It would just be Kate & Sawyer all over again for me, though, where I'd be imagining the scenario where they really were together in some fashion, if only to appease my wounded heart. But yes, I've already accepted that that may be the case. I won't be able to handle it if she's with Stefan instead, permanently, at the end. That will absolutely gut me, I'm sure, and possibly ruin all enjoyment ever for me. But I'm trying to back off from my crazy tendencies there.
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There isn't enough good D/E fic, period.
WORD. I'm considering chaining Zoe to her computer tbh.
Ugh, S/E endgame would kill me. After what happened, it would just be a terrible storytelling choice.
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Though I didn't comment on it, I only kudo'd it, which honestly, that's the laziest thing ever, that kudos button. I hate it.
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I'm really glad you liked my story (I'm vain like that ;) ). Why do you hate the kudos button? I quite like it, truth to be told. I mean, sure, I'd prefer actual comments, but, hey, this is better than nothing! So far, I got exactly one comment on AO3, and I just grew used to it. Lj is for comments, AO3 is for storage :).
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I have always wondered about the significance of you LJ moniker? What does it mean?
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I'm pathetic enough to crave any sort of feedback, so I grew to like kudos. I mean, sure, they're a lazy solution, but if life gives you lemons... ;). And it's a neat solution for me as a reader, because I'm a TERRIBLY lazy reader.
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