Do I do what I want to do? Or do I do what I should do?

[upupa_epops]

Ok, so I'm still processing the finale, and I have thoughts. Actually, I have too many thoughts, so I decided to break them into three separate posts. This is the first one, the other two (maybe I'll be able to combine them in one?) will appear some time this week.

Warnings: I overanalyse teen vampire shows. In order to make it more bearable, I

Comments

[vergoldung]

Oh, no. There is no question wether what Damon did to Andie was wrong or not. I didn't mean it like that. Actually I exactly did. My point was (why do I try to make point by asking questions? I have issues) that Jeremy's compulsion takes place within a different context. And that different context (Elena's reasons for compelling him, the fact that the compulsion wasn't placed on him in order to hurt him) changes the way we perceive his compulsion. The thing is, the fact that Damon physically rapes Andie isn't intrinsic to his compulsion. He could have raped her without it. He could have compelled her without physically raping her. Compulsion per se already is a form of rape - of the mind. I think it's very dangerous to consider Jeremy's compulsion less wrong, because he wasn't hurt as much as Andie. But again, that's what's so fascinating about TVD's moral grayness. The fact that killing or compelling are wrong is never a question. The question is wether it's acceptable or absolutely unforgivable. And that's when the context makes all the difference. When we judge Damon for Andie's compulsion and Elena for Jeremy's, we absolutely have to consider what they did with the compulsion, as well as why they did it. There is no way for Damon to be absolved from his crime. But wether Elena can be forgiven remains something very subjective. Damon absolves her instantly, telling her that Jeremy is lucky to have her as his sister. Bonnie gives her the side-eye for a few days. Elena herself condemns her actions, she knows how wrong it was. But doesn't regret them (I think). If she has to be the bad guy, so be it. But there is no definite answer given by the show regarding the degree of her guilt in the matter. (Was that clearer?)

It's terribly unhealthy, but it makes a perfect sense that she'd think like that.
I can absolutely agree with that, even if I didn't perceive that way while watching. I think it makes a lot of sense, considering the heavy parallels thrown in our faces during the episode. But I can't help but feel like this is only how Elena's brain work at a conscious level. So yes, she is certainly the one who judges herself the harshest. The guilt that she feels regarding her parent's death definitely plays an important part in her reasoning, both consciously and unconsciously. She owes it to her parents to do the right choices, but most importantly, to go on living. And I can't help but think that in the back of her mind she automatically associates that with Stefan. (Ugh, a scene study of her discussion with Matt is in order. Maybe it would bring me off this idea?)

Don't bother with the whole post, just read the end. The first part is just me fangirling about the show ;) because, yes, I actually loved the finale.

[upupa_epops]

I think it's very dangerous to consider Jeremy's compulsion less wrong, because he wasn't hurt as much as Andie.

I would say that there are degrees of evil here. There's a difference between Damon compelling Elena to forget that she met him in the forest and Damon compelling Andie to not be afraid of him. In both cases its a violation of the mind, and it's wrong, but with Andie, it's even more wrong, because the violation goes further. Not just erasing a single, insignificant event, but messing with a genuine emotional reaction. With Jeremy and Andie, the difference is slight, but there are degrees of evil in compulsion. (Or I'm morally depraved...)

Thank you for explaining, much clearer now :D.

And I can't help but think that in the back of her mind she automatically associates that with Stefan.

Sure she does. Stefan saved her life, he's "the good brother", she makes her be the better, nicer, more functional version of herself. It's perfectly understandable that she does it. Sick, but logical.

[vergoldung]

With Jeremy and Andie, the difference is slight, but there are degrees of evil in compulsion. (Or I'm morally depraved...)
I think in the end it's come to how you define the essence of said compulsion. If you look at it as a whole (the mind violation + the content of the given order) then yes, there is undoubtedly a moral scale to consider. If you consider the compulsion as a two stepped occurance (which I have a tendency to do - I like to dissect things), first the mind-control, then what you do with the power of that mind control, then only the latter makes a difference. I don't know, I guess it's just a question of concept...? But I think we pretty much agree in the end, because there is no doubt that, as a whole, these different compulsions can't be the same level of evil.

Stefan saved her life, he's "the good brother", she makes her be the better, nicer, more functional version of herself.
I'm having a lot of thoughts about this lately. If I have enough of them, maybe I'll make a post about her death wish struggle. Since I can't seem to get rid of this wacky idea at this point, I may as well get it out of my system. (I can't believe I'm already on LJ at 8 in the morning, on a freaking monday! Ugh me.)