This is yet another spontanous TVD meta. Because I have feelings about the last episode, and I have FEELINGS about what I currently see all around the internet. So, you know, it's either writing a meta, or spontanously growing a set of fangs and eating random people. This meta is a pitchfork in the hand of an angry God
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Ugh it seems like Elena haters are everywhere lately. :| It makes me want to stan her extra hard, sorry internet.
He is the key violator of free will in this show, and Elena is teaming up with him to send Jeremy away. And she knows it's wrong on the every possible level. Elena is pretty smart and self-reflective. She knows she's done a terrible thing, and you know what's worst? Damon understands. He is such a terrible person himself he can actually understand Elena at her lowest.
Ooh, nice insight. I like the idea that the lower Elena sinks, the closer she gets to Damon lol.
Basically, this kiss makes the Top Ten Damon Drama Queen Moments list.
lol Damon.
It's because this moment on the porch is her most vulnerable moment. She's just done something horrible, and she knows exactly how horrible it is, because she had had the same thing done to her in the past. She knows she is spiralling. And she knows Damon sees it. She is so exposed she can't even get her defences up in time.
That's sort of awful in a way, though, isn't it? It's like... okay, Damon respects Stefan's feelings enough to at least pay lip service to the fact that wanting Elena when Stefan has sacrificed everything for him makes him feel guilty. But he doesn't seem to stop and think that maybe it's not right to take advantage of Elena when she's at her most vulnerable and unable to resist him. lol not really the WORST thing that Damon has done to Elena in the grand scheme of things, I guess. Buuut one of the things that put me off D/E in a big way in S2 was his tendency to see Elena as an object (to be protected, mostly) and not as an agent capable of making her own decisions or with desires above and beyond simply protecting her own life (such as: a world where Elena survives but Bonnie has to die is not a world Elena wants to live in). So Damon is concerned about how Stefan would feel about them kissing but not Elena herself which objectifies her (she is something he wants; rather than someone in a vulnerable position who can't reject him). A lot of D/E fans talk about how selfless Damon's love for Elena is, but many of his actions in regards to her seem the opposite to me - very selfish. (p.s. One day you must share your thoughts on Damon erasing his "I love you" in 2x08 which has always seemed like the ultimate selfish moment to me rather than him being all noble as some fans paint it).
ANYWAY where do you see the dynamic going in 2x11? Elena with her defences up again in a big way? Or a lot of awkwardness between them?
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Oh, I definitely agree that Damon was totally selfish in this scene! Typical Damon crap, just like s2. I was even going to write about it in the post, but it slipped my mind when I decided I wouldn't focus on Damon. Thanks for bringing it up!
One day you must share your thoughts on Damon erasing his "I love you" in 2x08 which has always seemed like the ultimate selfish moment to me rather than him being all noble as some fans paint it
MY VERY FIRST CLASH WITH DAMON/ELENA FANDOM, LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT IT!
Damon/Elena Fandom: "OMG, this scene was so awesome!!!"
Me: "OMG, this scene was so awesome!"
Damon/Elena Fandom: "OMG, it was SO ROMANTIC, what do you think Elena will do when she finds out? WILL SHE FINALLY SEE SENSE AND LOVE HIM BACK?"
Me: "Uhm. She will kick his ass six ways to Sunday for being such a self-centred dick and messing with her MIND?"
Damon/Elena Fandom: *vomits rainbows*
Me: *IDEK*
So, yeah. I love the scene from Rose to bits, but, for God's sake, in which universe is Damon being selfless? He is indulging himself with a dramatic scene and then he is covering up his sorry, cowardy ass. I love this scene, because it is a great illustration of Damon's level of screwed-up. Plus, when Elena does find out, she will kick his ass gloriously.
As for 3x11 - I'm expecting an elephant in the room, but honestly? I have no idea. TVD keeps surprising me. Right now I think they'll choose to pretend nothing happened. It's not like they don't have real problems right now. So I vote for building up entropy.
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I think the selflessness is in the sentiment of letting her go - acknowledging that he doesn't deserve Elena and that she's better off with Stefan? But Damon being Damon, he needs the selfish indulgence of TELLING HER ABOUT IT.
(And, let's be fair, it's not actually all that selfless. I mean, what's he saying? "I'll stop harassing you and let you date my brother in peace." YOU'RE A CHAMP, DAMON.)
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I guess I don't only agree with you, but also with your Katherine icon XD.
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I have two feelings about this. No, wait, three.
1. Yes, Damon absolutely is awful and selfish. I would never deny Damon is those things. :)
2. I feel like this is kind of on par with them, though? Like, Damon is ALWAYS prioritizing Stefan over Elena. He even did it earlier in this episode by agreeing to help Stefan and not tell Elena. So of course he would think of Stefan first when it comes to the smoochies.
Granted, he should be capable of thinking of Stefan AND Elena, they're not mutually exclusive in this instance, but... it's Damon. He's awful. :)
3. I also think that, on some level, even knowing she was vulnerable, he expected her to stop him because she always does. I think he assumes that even at her lowest, she's still stronger than him (which is more about his view of himself than his view of her).
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I also think that, on some level, even knowing she was vulnerable, he expected her to stop him because she always does.
INTERESTING! Even though he knows her so well, he couldn't have guessed she would be vulnerable enough to actually not react. Doesn't make him any less awful, but adds some extra information about how much Elena is disturbed by the whole Jeremy thing.
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Even though he knows her so well, he couldn't have guessed she would be vulnerable enough to actually not react.
I think it's not so much about knowing her and judging her vulnerability, because it's not an objective reading? It's the fact that neither of them can ever think less of the other person than they think of themselves. ever_neutral described it as "mutual inferiority complexes," lol - back in S2 it was all about how they both felt they deserved to die and the other one didn't, and they were both trying to convince each other that their sacrifice wasn't worth it, lol.
How that relates to this scene... I see Damon as assuming, "Well, obviously, I am a horrible enough person to do this, but she's not." She wouldn't kiss him back, because that would make her as horrible as him and she can't be because HE IS THE ACTUAL WORST.
(Meanwhile, of course, we see Elena beating herself up for being a horrible person with Jeremy, but notice she doesn't tell Damon HE'S horrible for agreeing with her? It could never have happened without his help. But it's all her fault because SHE IS THE ACTUAL WORST.)
But it's an artificial distinction because THEY ARE THE SAME, RIGHT DOWN TO THE HIS-AND-HERS INFERIORITY COMPLEXES. Bless.
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I honestly think Damon and Elena are incapable of being objective about each other. Well, no, they can be objective, but the objectivity is irrelevant. A lot of people point out the lack of respect in their relationship? But Damon and Elena's friendship/relationship is not driven by ~respect~. Because Elena OBJECTIVELY thinks Damon is a terrible person, but it doesn't matter, she can be friends with him anyway.
(This is like the opposite of Elena/Stefan, where the strength/functionality of their relationship entirely depended on their good opinion of one another. It's a far healthier and normative type of relationship, I suppose, but it's not the way D/E roll, lmao.)
The strength of D/E is that rare trust Marta basically describes, where Damon understands Elena at her worst. But it's not really just that--it's about Damon being able to be in that dark place WITH her. Damon is moved by Elena's vulnerability, it makes him equally as vulnerable, which is what prompts him to crazy emotional shit like kiss her spontaneously and selfishly.
And yeah, I think one thing you have to keep in mind about the kiss is that Damon KNOWS he's being selfish, and that's why he does it. He's doing the stupid thing on purpose. (Everything you said in your post, basically.)
Plus, he's an impulsive freak. I actually don't think he'd have kissed Elena if he didn't already suspect she would reciprocate (because she was giving him doe eyes during their conversation, I suppose). But I also don't think he gave much thought to how exactly she'd react until he JUST DID IT~
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Damon is moved by Elena's vulnerability, it makes him equally as vulnerable, which is what prompts him to crazy emotional shit like kiss her spontaneously and selfishly.
THIS.
Damon/Elena is becoming such a tangle I can more or less understand them intuitively, but they're getting harder and harder to describe...
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Heh, that's not really new though. She's been giving him doe eyes since day 1, and it's pretty obvious Damon knows she's attracted to him. :) I think it's more a matter of not knowing which would win out - her morals or lust?
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lol, I DISAGREE, actually. (not tryin' to start somethin', I swear.)
But in any case, IA about the kiss. Damon had to have been certain Elena would reciprocate in a purely physical sense; however, he probably expected her to object from a "moral" standpoint.
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TRUE. I guess what I'm getting at is that Damon is very, very good at protecting Elena: The Physical Person ("I will always choose you" etc.) and less good at protecting Elena's emotional needs and wants. When the season first started, someone on my flist pointed out that Stefan always filled the roll of nurturer and suddenly Damon found himself in BOTH roles in S3... and is not very good at it. I like that explanation.
I also think that, on some level, even knowing she was vulnerable, he expected her to stop him because she always does.
Hmm, I like this, but I'm not really sure I see it? He just seemed so smug after their kiss! lol.
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I have a feeling that it isn't so simple, but I can't tell if this impression comes from the actual show, or it was put in my brain by a fic... I NEED TO THINK ABOUT THIS.
He just seemed so smug after their kiss!
He is Damon. I bet he even looks smug when brushing his teeth ;).
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