FREE-FOR-ALL META COMMENT-A-THON

[upupa_epops]

Old news: lj is dead. Everyone is crazy busy, or they have other reasons not to be here. No one has time to read those huge meta posts we used to write once upon a time. But maybe we can all find ten minutes to do this:

FREE-FOR-ALL META COMMENT-A-THON!

Comments

[upupa_epops]

BtVS, Spike and ignorance, or rather - feigning it.

Spike consciously pretends to be uneducated, unaware of many cultural tropes, both from "high brow" and "low brow" culture. But sometimes he forgets to perform, and does things like calling Jonathan "Spock" or automatically reacting to Giles' Shakespeare quote. I'd like to read anything about this kind of performance. Why does he do it? When does he slip? How does he slip? What could've been his education?

[lynnenne]

Spike's entire persona is a performance, isn't it? I see his feigned ignorance as part of the mask. He hated the person he was as human - cultured, genteel and easily wounded - and decided to remake himself as someone tough and strong, adopting the street thug mask because it fit into his notion of what "tough and strong" should be. In "Fool for Love" he tells Buffy, "I was through living by society's rules. Decided to make a few of my own

[upupa_epops]

Thank you <333333333. I never thought of the implications of the "tough guy" persona not really working the way it should (as a shield from harm), so thank you for pointing them out!

I see his feigned ignorance as part of the mask. He hated the person he was as human - cultured, genteel and easily wounded - and decided to remake himself as someone tough and strong, adopting the street thug mask because it fit into his notion of what "tough and strong" should be.

Definitely agreed, but it brings another question: why does he pretend he doesn't know popular culture? Surely a street thug can know some sci-fi, and yet when he visits the Trio, he ostensibly pretends to not be aware of anything they refer to. I think it's because he wants to make a point that he's nothing like them, because they're "losers"?

Also, it's interesting that the only fiction he ever admits to consuming is "Passions" XDDDDDDD.

I wonder if Giles expected Spike to pick up on his Shakespeare. Because he didn't look surprised at all.

[lynnenne]

Surely a street thug can know some sci-fi

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, I'm hardly an expert on what constitutes a thug. ;) But the popular perception seems to be that sci-fi fans are "geeks" and, in general, pretty smart. They're fans of science, which implies a certain level of education. I think that, in Spike's mind, a "thug" like him would be a fan of Bruce Lee films, explosions and Rambo movies. Action is fine; sci-fi action is for nerds.

Also, it's interesting that the only fiction he ever admits to consuming is "Passions"

Which is, let's face it, pretty low-brow. So it fits the profile. :D

[rebcake]

I also like when he quotes songs and musicals. The "Hello, gorgeous" line in The Initiative is from Funny Girl and "goodbye Piccadilly, farewell Leicster Square" is a line from the WWI era song "Tipperary". The triple reference to The Music Man, the Rolling Stones' "Get Yer Yayas Out" and "Kumbaya" at the end of Once More With Feeling is pure gold, though. Spike lets his cultural slip show a lot, and I'm not convinced he tries that hard to keep it all under wraps.

Ooh, also! Was I the only one that was surprised when he read the Greekish/Latin at the monastery when he went on the road trip with Andrew? I shouldn't have been. Somebody definitely got a solid Victorian education.

[lynnenne]

I think the reference to The Music Man is my favorite. 76 bloody trombones. Heeeeeeeee. All of the properties you mention were, at one time, part of popular culture, and Spike's been around for a long time. I think it's cools that he remembers it all.

Was I the only one that was surprised when he read the Greekish/Latin at the monastery

I wasn't surprised in the least. Although I expected his classical translation skills to be a little rusty.

[stormwreath]

It was Spike's Shakespeare! He was the one who said " Well, not exactly the St. Crispin's Day speech, was it?" and Giles responded to that. True, he didn't seem surprised that Spike would be familiar with the play; but given they're both English I think they'd be more surprised if the other didn't know it. :)

I suspect Spike pretends not to know popular culture because his manufactured self-image is someone who goes his own way, ploughs his own furrow, isn't one of the herd. Admitting he watches soap operas would ruin that image. As for Star Trek: while science fiction and fantasy have become more mainstream in recent decades, I think back in the day they were considered a lot more nerdy and sad - not things you'd expect to impress anybody by admitting you knew about. And it's canon that vampires' views of popular culture tend to get stuck in the attitudes of the past. (Hey, maybe Spike could claim he watches 'Passions' as research?)

[spikesjojo]

His first scene on the show, while talking to Dru, he says "I'll chop her into messes." That comes from Othello. There are more than a few other authors he quotes at random but they are usually quotes that no one would pick up on so he can both test the person he's talking to and maintain his persona.