She knows she loves Stefan, because she stood up and said: “I love you, and I will be this person who always finds you, who always saves you like you saved me, who helps you be your best self like you help me be my best self”, and then she kept her word. Love is a choice of the version of the self. You should love the person that makes you glad that you're alive.
Yesssssssssssss, such a good description. I feel like this is the key point where people divide in fandom, too? Not just with Damon/Elena, but Katherine too. Katherine has consistently "chosen" not to love Damon (or anybody else), she has left him for dead, she has consciously abandoned him, broken him, and this is supposed to prove that the love doesn't exist.
/lol, making your D/E meta about D/K
Damon thinks that Elena's kind of love is in fact a lie and an act of cowardice (There is something going on between the two of us, and you know it. And you're lying to me, and you're lying to Stefan, and most of all, you're lying to yourself. I can prove it. - 2x01, The Return).
Does Damon really think this though? When he goes off on that bent in 2x01, he's hysterical and depressed. And considering that he remembers "it's always gonna be Stefan" right up to the S3 finale, I'd think that he actually takes Elena's words to heart. I think Damon recognises that his own conception of love is "unacceptable" by normative standards. It's a problem. He's well aware of that.
I don't want a ship that has a simple answer. I want a ship that would stand in front of me and honestly admit that they can't find an answer, and that it's possible that there's no answer. I can relate to their contradictions, and to their lack of an objective definition. My quality of form is purely subjective.
S T U N N I N G. Everyone should read this post. And then shove their self-righteous theories of "selfless love" so far up their asses they'll really have something to choke on.
Damon is so determined to save her, but when push comes to shove, he just happens to not be around. Always too late, never the white knight, couldn't save Katherine, can't save Elena.
Y E SSSSSSSSSSS. Damon and Elena do not save each other. They don't do that.
Damon happens in the dark.
SLKJFDLS;KJFLS;DKJFL;KDSJFL;KDS
He is too restless to deal with a situation like that, and, on top of that, openly facing this kind of victimization is too close to his own vulnerability. He doesn't want to understand this part of Elena.
See, this is paradoxically my favourite thing, though. Because it means that Damon ultimately has no real desire for Elena to be emotionally dependent on him? He'll pick up the pieces when it's necessary, but his identity doesn't depend on that role. He wants to engage with Elena in a relationship (any sort of relationship) where she WANTS to be around him, as opposed to just needing him (though she clearly does need him).
She stands at the graves of four people she loved and she got killed, and she would do anything to not have lost them. She can't bear this loss. She can't lose them.
UGHHHHHH YES. This is why I'm not as bothered by Elena forgiving Damon so quickly. I mean, ideally I would have preferred more, but the subtext is pretty clear to me. Elena recognises that Damon's unforgivable violation of her will was the product of his paralysing fear of loss. That same sense of loss she experiences as she stands before the graves of her five dead parents (and then she looks up at Damon across the cemetery, and she UNDERSTANDS).
AND THEN SHE WAS TURNED INTO A VAMPIRE LITERALLY ONE EPISODE AFTER DECLARING THAT SHE WAS WILLING TO BE THE "BAD GUY" IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE SHE LOVES??? (SOUND FAMILIAR, BITCHES????) I just. I can't. This narrative is a thing of beauty.
Not just with Damon/Elena, but Katherine too. Katherine has consistently "chosen" not to love Damon (or anybody else), she has left him for dead, she has consciously abandoned him, broken him, and this is supposed to prove that the love doesn't exist.
Oh, good point. Katherine doesn't destroy people because she doesn't love them. She destroys the people she loves because she knows that love makes her vulnerable, and she's choosing not to be a victim. She knows she can live without love, so she sheds it when she thinks her life is in danger. It's simple like that.
When he goes off on that bent in 2x01, he's hysterical and depressed. And considering that he remembers "it's always gonna be Stefan" right up to the S3 finale, I'd think that he actually takes Elena's words to heart. I think Damon recognises that his own conception of love is "unacceptable" by normative standards. It's a problem. He's well aware of that.
HUH. Now you got me thinking. And I guess I agree, after 2x01 Damon never questions Elena's honesty re: her feelings for him. She says "I don't know" in 3x19, and he takes it without blinking. I think that he did think Elena was lying in 2x01, and then he learned the hard way that when Elena tells him something, she means it. He still would never apply her definition of love to himself (in that sense, it's unacceptable for him), but he's acknowledged that she works in a different way.
And then shove their self-righteous theories of "selfless love" so far up their asses they'll really have something to choke on.
A+++++++++++++++++++++
Because it means that Damon ultimately has no real desire for Elena to be emotionally dependent on him?
OMG yes. Unlike Stefan, Damon doesn't have a fantasy of being the nurturer. He's never had, it's not a part of his system of delusions. Damon doesn't want to live up to anyone's expectations.
AND THEN SHE WAS TURNED INTO A VAMPIRE LITERALLY ONE EPISODE AFTER DECLARING THAT SHE WAS WILLING TO BE THE "BAD GUY" IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE SHE LOVES??? (SOUND FAMILIAR, BITCHES????) I just. I can't. This narrative is a thing of beauty.
OMG ALEX I JUST HAD A THOUGHT. Elena is a vampire. Which means she isn't the doppelganger any more. Nothing targets her. She doesn't need to be saved, because, after two seasons, she finally isn't in bigger danger than everyone else. She's the part of problem-solving team now. DAMON AND ELENA CAN TEAM UP AND DO DUMB THINGS TO PROTECT EVERYONE ELSE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does Damon really think this though? When he goes off on that bent in 2x01, he's hysterical and depressed. And considering that he remembers "it's always gonna be Stefan" right up to the S3 finale, I'd think that he actually takes Elena's words to heart. I think Damon recognises that his own conception of love is "unacceptable" by normative standards. It's a problem. He's well aware of that.
Yeah, I think 2x01 is actually the point when Damon realizes how problematic his conception of love is. He thought Katherine loved him, but apparently she didn't. He thought Elena had feelings for him, but she doesn't. Clearly, he must be doin it wrong or this wouldn't keep happening. Turns out that most people don't love - or don't want to love - in the reckless, unconditional way that he does.
He does believe that Elena loves him, based on his definition of love. She accepts him at his worst. She likes him just as he is except for when she tries to make him more like Stefan. He's hurt her a thousand times, and she's still his friend.
But he also recognizes that that ISN'T Elena's definition. He understands that she sees love as a choice, as something to be earned/deserved, and he knows he'll never be that in her eyes. And when he's not completely hysterical, he can accept that. ("I don't deserve you, but my brother does." He doesn't say that because "deserving" matters to him. He says it because it matters to Elena.)
Clearly, he must be doin it wrong or this wouldn't keep happening. Turns out that most people don't love - or don't want to love - in the reckless, unconditional way that he does.
Bwaha. He cares too much; it's a problem.
She likes him just as he is except for when she tries to make him more like Stefan.
LOL. Does she really even though? I honestly think that's mostly in his head. There are definitely times where Elena is projecting (and trying to ~shape him into a better man~), but I'm pretty sure the "Stop trying to turn me into him" thing is all paranoia and insecurity.
"I don't deserve you, but my brother does." He doesn't say that because "deserving" matters to him. He says it because it matters to Elena.
Good point. Nobody needs to earn Damon's love. Because his love, ultimately, is worthless. (It's a problem.)
LOL. Does she really even though? I honestly think that's mostly in his head. There are definitely times where Elena is projecting (and trying to ~shape him into a better man~), but I'm pretty sure the "Stop trying to turn me into him" thing is all paranoia and insecurity.
LOL yes. I was all in Damon's ~POV, hahaha. Although, I think even he knows that her friendship and her love are not contingent on him being ~better. She's proven that. His "don't turn me into Stefan" thing has FAR more to do with his relationship with Stefan than his relationship with Elena.
She knows she loves Stefan, because she stood up and said: “I love you, and I will be this person who always finds you, who always saves you like you saved me, who helps you be your best self like you help me be my best self”, and then she kept her word. Love is a choice of the version of the self. You should love the person that makes you glad that you're alive.
Yesssssssssssss, such a good description. I feel like this is the key point where people divide in fandom, too? Not just with Damon/Elena, but Katherine too. Katherine has consistently "chosen" not to love Damon (or anybody else), she has left him for dead, she has consciously abandoned him, broken him, and this is supposed to prove that the love doesn't exist.
/lol, making your D/E meta about D/K
Damon thinks that Elena's kind of love is in fact a lie and an act of cowardice (There is something going on between the two of us, and you know it. And you're lying to me, and you're lying to Stefan, and most of all, you're lying to yourself. I can prove it. - 2x01, The Return).
Does Damon really think this though? When he goes off on that bent in 2x01, he's hysterical and depressed. And considering that he remembers "it's always gonna be Stefan" right up to the S3 finale, I'd think that he actually takes Elena's words to heart. I think Damon recognises that his own conception of love is "unacceptable" by normative standards. It's a problem. He's well aware of that.
I don't want a ship that has a simple answer. I want a ship that would stand in front of me and honestly admit that they can't find an answer, and that it's possible that there's no answer. I can relate to their contradictions, and to their lack of an objective definition. My quality of form is purely subjective.
S T U N N I N G. Everyone should read this post. And then shove their self-righteous theories of "selfless love" so far up their asses they'll really have something to choke on.
Damon is so determined to save her, but when push comes to shove, he just happens to not be around. Always too late, never the white knight, couldn't save Katherine, can't save Elena.
Y E SSSSSSSSSSS. Damon and Elena do not save each other. They don't do that.
Damon happens in the dark.
SLKJFDLS;KJFLS;DKJFL;KDSJFL;KDS
He is too restless to deal with a situation like that, and, on top of that, openly facing this kind of victimization is too close to his own vulnerability. He doesn't want to understand this part of Elena.
See, this is paradoxically my favourite thing, though. Because it means that Damon ultimately has no real desire for Elena to be emotionally dependent on him? He'll pick up the pieces when it's necessary, but his identity doesn't depend on that role. He wants to engage with Elena in a relationship (any sort of relationship) where she WANTS to be around him, as opposed to just needing him (though she clearly does need him).
She stands at the graves of four people she loved and she got killed, and she would do anything to not have lost them. She can't bear this loss. She can't lose them.
UGHHHHHH YES. This is why I'm not as bothered by Elena forgiving Damon so quickly. I mean, ideally I would have preferred more, but the subtext is pretty clear to me. Elena recognises that Damon's unforgivable violation of her will was the product of his paralysing fear of loss. That same sense of loss she experiences as she stands before the graves of her five dead parents (and then she looks up at Damon across the cemetery, and she UNDERSTANDS).
AND THEN SHE WAS TURNED INTO A VAMPIRE LITERALLY ONE EPISODE AFTER DECLARING THAT SHE WAS WILLING TO BE THE "BAD GUY" IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE SHE LOVES??? (SOUND FAMILIAR, BITCHES????) I just. I can't. This narrative is a thing of beauty.
How do I show mine?
LOL
In conclusion: Jump off a bridge.
Reply
Oh, good point. Katherine doesn't destroy people because she doesn't love them. She destroys the people she loves because she knows that love makes her vulnerable, and she's choosing not to be a victim. She knows she can live without love, so she sheds it when she thinks her life is in danger. It's simple like that.
When he goes off on that bent in 2x01, he's hysterical and depressed. And considering that he remembers "it's always gonna be Stefan" right up to the S3 finale, I'd think that he actually takes Elena's words to heart. I think Damon recognises that his own conception of love is "unacceptable" by normative standards. It's a problem. He's well aware of that.
HUH. Now you got me thinking. And I guess I agree, after 2x01 Damon never questions Elena's honesty re: her feelings for him. She says "I don't know" in 3x19, and he takes it without blinking. I think that he did think Elena was lying in 2x01, and then he learned the hard way that when Elena tells him something, she means it. He still would never apply her definition of love to himself (in that sense, it's unacceptable for him), but he's acknowledged that she works in a different way.
And then shove their self-righteous theories of "selfless love" so far up their asses they'll really have something to choke on.
A+++++++++++++++++++++
Because it means that Damon ultimately has no real desire for Elena to be emotionally dependent on him?
OMG yes. Unlike Stefan, Damon doesn't have a fantasy of being the nurturer. He's never had, it's not a part of his system of delusions. Damon doesn't want to live up to anyone's expectations.
AND THEN SHE WAS TURNED INTO A VAMPIRE LITERALLY ONE EPISODE AFTER DECLARING THAT SHE WAS WILLING TO BE THE "BAD GUY" IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE SHE LOVES??? (SOUND FAMILIAR, BITCHES????) I just. I can't. This narrative is a thing of beauty.
OMG ALEX I JUST HAD A THOUGHT. Elena is a vampire. Which means she isn't the doppelganger any more. Nothing targets her. She doesn't need to be saved, because, after two seasons, she finally isn't in bigger danger than everyone else. She's the part of problem-solving team now. DAMON AND ELENA CAN TEAM UP AND DO DUMB THINGS TO PROTECT EVERYONE ELSE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In conclusion: Jump off a bridge.
Reply
Yeah, I think 2x01 is actually the point when Damon realizes how problematic his conception of love is. He thought Katherine loved him, but apparently she didn't. He thought Elena had feelings for him, but she doesn't. Clearly, he must be doin it wrong or this wouldn't keep happening. Turns out that most people don't love - or don't want to love - in the reckless, unconditional way that he does.
He does believe that Elena loves him, based on his definition of love. She accepts him at his worst. She likes him just as he is except for when she tries to make him more like Stefan. He's hurt her a thousand times, and she's still his friend.
But he also recognizes that that ISN'T Elena's definition. He understands that she sees love as a choice, as something to be earned/deserved, and he knows he'll never be that in her eyes. And when he's not completely hysterical, he can accept that. ("I don't deserve you, but my brother does." He doesn't say that because "deserving" matters to him. He says it because it matters to Elena.)
Reply
Bwaha. He cares too much; it's a problem.
She likes him just as he is except for when she tries to make him more like Stefan.
LOL. Does she really even though? I honestly think that's mostly in his head. There are definitely times where Elena is projecting (and trying to ~shape him into a better man~), but I'm pretty sure the "Stop trying to turn me into him" thing is all paranoia and insecurity.
"I don't deserve you, but my brother does." He doesn't say that because "deserving" matters to him. He says it because it matters to Elena.
Good point. Nobody needs to earn Damon's love. Because his love, ultimately, is worthless. (It's a problem.)
Reply
LOL yes. I was all in Damon's ~POV, hahaha. Although, I think even he knows that her friendship and her love are not contingent on him being ~better. She's proven that. His "don't turn me into Stefan" thing has FAR more to do with his relationship with Stefan than his relationship with Elena.
Reply
And yes to all of that. The strength of Damon and Elena's friendship really has little to do with Elena's objective opinion of him (LOL).
Reply
Leave a comment