Liberals are the problem

[unknownj]

I've had it pointed out to me more than once that my politics are a bit.. "extreme"..? I dunno, I don't care for that word - I'm always open to debate on it, and can back up any ideologies I might support with logical, considered arguments. With those attributes in mind, I don't find "extreme" to be a helpful word since it also describes people

Comments

[tma]

But would you not rather we had grown more slowly, in a more morally acceptable way?

No, because if you apply that policy to the entirety of human history we'd still be fresh out of the trees, and I'm really quite a fan of my roof and central heating. As nice as it might be, if you apply such stringent controls (and I don't argue that there shouldn't be controls), you don't get the advancement required.

At some point, can we not take our feet off the gas pedal, say "we're pretty happy with where we've got to, let's not maniacally chase economic growth

But we can't stay still - without advancement we won't be able to beat the huge challenges that are facing us as a species (overpopulation, climate change). What will drive people to invest in schemes like nuclear fusion? Anticipated profits. Profits they are taxed on to pay for the rather excellent welfare state, amongst other things we take for granted.

What you're talking about is the utopian future, the Star Trek future where people don't *need* money because everything you want can be created out of thin air for free. Should we aspire to get there? Of course, that'd be amazing, I'd love it if everyone could live happily and sustainably without any suffering. Until we do, though, we'll have to just accept that 'bad things' will happen, and people will, on occasion, get exploited. Should there be restraints on this? Yes, minimising the damage done for furthering ourselves would be nice, but not to the point where you actually constrain growth and development.

That's it. Breathe in the realism. Deep breaths.

[unknownj]

Your first paragraph basically says it all. You're happy to have a comfortable life at the expense of others. As such, you and I are coming at politics from very different angles.

overpopulation, climate change

Overpopulation is hugely driven by poverty, climate change by unsustainable industrial practices largely arising from a thirst for economic growth. A fairer and more equitable world resolves a great deal of that. Show me a social ill, and I'll show you how the human instinct to compete is a massive contributor to it in one way or another.

You seem worryingly comfortable with the idea that people who aren't you will inevitably be exploited in order that you can maintain your current quality of life, and in order to deliver progress (which will of course first be felt in the first world, by you). As I mentioned in the start, you and I are coming at this from incredibly different angles.

[tma]

Your *only* angle appears to be 'progress is bad, we should never have left the jungle'.

Of course the human instinct to compete has created injustice and hurt, but look at all the amazing things it's done. I won't list them, just look around you.

[unknownj]

Your angle appears to be "progress has been good for me, so who fucking cares?", which isn't any better :o)

And "just looking around me" shows me that yes, the first world has done very well out of this. Before we do any better, I'd quite like to share that with the rest of the world. Y'know, like the people who made it all possible..?

[tma]

And now I'm watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eVN55NEREo

[unknownj]

True fact: I went to a screening of all the episodes, plus new material, followed by a Q&A with the guys who made the show, hosted by Jonathan Ross.

I mean, it's no Red Dwarf X, but still.. be jealous :oP