When the Dark is Gone

[undyingking]

I spent last week mostly playing and running games, in the company of some excellent people, and it was great! Most of them were of the prepless and/or GMless style that I've been increasingly interested in in recent years. I'll probably spew out some more thoughts here about the others shortly, but I wanted to pick up on When the Dark is Gone

Comments

[huggyrei]

My own issue here is that I am hesitant about the GM-less style.

If a game is too GM-led, it can get frustrating as players feel they can't influence things, but are mere puppets. This is extremely frustrating and tends to lead me to a certian amount of rebellion or outright leaving, not a good sign.

On the other hand, if it's too far the other way, I tend to stand around wondering what to do. Games that are entirely player-led seem to be all player vs player, which I don't really enjoy, and I end up deciding it'd really be best for my character if I just left entirely... Personally, I find this GMless style of game too far down this route. I don't know what to do, and hate feeling I'm being pressured to be spontaneously creative about the world, and anyway I really wanted something to happen that I could react to and explore. But then, I really enjoy exploring worlds, pushing buttons, and figuring out what the heck is going on. I tried play by LJ type online RPGing, and got similarly bored and frustrated when the only plots were those we all made up.

I suppose it's a question of personal preference over where the balance point should be. My feeling is that these sorts of games would be for me more of a pre-game tool to generate ideas to help me write the real game later :)

[huggyrei]

Having said that, I'd be willing to give it a go, especially the 'When The Doctor Has Gone' variant, although I'd probably feel the need to spend prep time writing down scenes and plot ideas beforehand (thus shifting work from GM to me, grumble). Actually, how far does the player-led thing go? Would it be possible to run a slightly more GM-involved game - e.g. the therapist having already written down a series of scene starters to prompt the players with, and suggested responses if they get stuck? I'd personally actually rather have the GM get involved and offer suggestions if I'm starting to get bogged down or unsure what to do next.

[huggyrei]

(I feel at this point I should re-read through the game stuff as I'm now feeling a bit unsure about my interpretation)

[huggyrei]

Ah yes - I think I'd basically prefer it if the "Create the event(s) which occurred in the magical world that you have repressed" bit was actually already written by the GM, along with the seed memory, and actually a bit more with the GM 'what does the room look like' questions, probably phrased more as suggestions (e.g. "I think you said last session that you remembered that the room was full of golden harps, laid out in neat rows? Is that what you still remember? Can you remember any further details?").

[undyingking]

I can't think off the top of my head why that shouldn't work, although I think it would slightly undercut frax's intentions (as I understand them). Having nothing at all coming from the GM means that the players are wholly in 'lean forward' mode - they can never just relax back and let themselves be entertained. Which is demanding… but it means that whatever happens is an authentic emotional experience, rather than a second-hand one.

But that doesn't mean it wouldn't work of course, it just turns it into a slightly different kind of game - maybe a better one, for some players.

(In my session I don't think the players did feel bogged down - I was meaning that, when a GM might think they're bogged down, they aren't actually, they're just feeling their way towards the next piece of expression. There were a few occasions where I thought "normally I would say something here to move things on", but bit my tongue, and it turned out the player was just pausing for thought and was about to say some more interesting stuff which I would have cut off had I acted on GM impulse.)

[Moved this reply to here as it seemed to make more sense that way.]

[huggyrei]

If you decide to run the Doctor Who version, I'd be interested in trying it out. You could come over and run it? Although I think I'd appreciate a list of suggestion seeds or scenes - just as something to fall back onto as a starting point if I'm not sure what happens next! Maybe a card variation - if I'm actually hesitating because I'm panicking and can't think of anything, hold up a 'help!' card, and let someone else make a suggestion, possibly even another player taking over the narrative rather than the GM to try and maintain more of Frax's intentions?

[undyingking]

I'm not really into Dr Who, so I wouldn't run that one. (I have pondered another version, though, with frax, called When the Dog is Gone - this would be about the Famous Five human characters. Either Timmy has died, or (more interestingly) he never actually existed - he was an imaginary friend that they mutually invented to take the blame for the trouble they got into.)

One nice pressure-relieving thing about the narrative during the game is that it can naturally be quite tentative, because the characters' memories are explicitly patchy. So in general players pass short snippets around the group rather than any one person having to do an extended spree of creation. If you (as a player) would like there to be an enemy figure but can't at the moment think of a good one to invent, you can just say "and then we were kidnapped by that horrible person… what were they called? - you know, the one who starved us…" and then one of the other players who's feeling a bit more inspired can pick that up with "Ah, you mean Amulos the Undefiled, the brass-bearded warmonger - yes, he was a real beast. Was it him who made you cut all your hair off?" (etc) So that can sometimes function in the same sort of way as a "help!" card would. But yes, in general I think cards like that would be fine - their presence might give players confidence even if they never ended up getting used.

[huggyrei]

That could work; I was just thinking of a setting I'm quite familiar with (and Doctor Who has in fact had several characters left with their memories wiped, which is convenient). Although think I might actually prefer to use Narnia - or maybe the Harry Potter universe :)

Your example of passing things along if stuck sounds good to me.

[sea_of_flame]

Maybe have three stress balls or toys on the table?

Two for the player currently speaking: one for 'I'm stuck, please step in', another for 'This is a deliberate IC pause/wobble, please don't try to step in/only step in if it's intended as an IC derailment/re-direction'.

One (or even a box of them) for any of the other players to pick up & fiddle with, to indicate they'd like to take over, but are waiting for a suitable prompt/comment so that they don't interrupt the current speaker.

[undyingking]

That sounds fun, and fits beautifully in the theme :-)

[huggyrei]

Ooh, like that suggestion! Would make the game feel more safe-player-space to me without detracting from the intended feel.

[undyingking]

I guess a partial equivalent of that would be to use a mutually known background, eg. Narnia etc - which variation is 'approved' by the existing rules, because of not privileging the GM's knowledge of the world above the players?

[smiorgan]

That's a fair statement of preference, but those changes would make it a completely different game.

WTDIG is a psychodrama, like De Profundis. The GM doesn't have a creative role, they have a facilitation role. Also the players are not adversarial by default, although I don't see a problem in PCs taking sides against each other in the ensuing discussion. They're unable to make the other side "lose" in doing so.

I wrote about my experiences here... although it's rather long and rambly.

[huggyrei]

Yes, this is true, and I think I'd like to give it a fair try as it's supposed to be played. I suppose I'm trying to think of a way of addressing my concern that I'll get stuck and feel pressured to be spontaneously creative at a time when my mind has gone blank and thus panic and feel like I've 'failed' - do you have any suggestions for a way to address this without spoiling the premise of the game? I think just some kind of signal to another player (rather than the GM) to take over the narrative or make suggestions about what they can remember would be helpful, as well as simple assurance that it's ok if I flail and can't think of anything, that won't spoil things for anyone or lead to anyone thinking I'm rubbish or uncreative (including me)!

[undyingking]

simple assurance that it's ok if I flail and can't think of anything

I think that should be a standard part of the preamble for these games, along with the conversation about what material shouldn't be included and 'no physicalling' etc. I guess in the game I ran it was implicit, but it would be better to make it explicit.

[smiorgan]

do you have any suggestions for a way to address this without spoiling the premise of the game?

Collaborative storytelling games will always have an element of asking a player to improvise and contribute on demand. On the other hand everyone is a contributor--the other players are your support mechanism, not your judges. So in the nicest possible way I'd just say you need to get over your anxiety and have fun. The only way you're going to "spoil the game" is if you worry about it and in doing so cause the other players to worry (OOC) about you and break immersion.

Besides, the facilitator in WTDIG is the one who ensures that people get a turn speaking and should also be there to support you if you don't feel able to contribute right there and then.

Probably best you play with players you're comfortable around though--as others have said, I would think twice before playing it with a bunch of strangers.