Hi. Remember me?
Back again, after yet another long hiatus. I'm not going to promise to post more regularly this time, 'cause it always seems like life makes a liar out of me, for one reason or another. I kinda doubt anyone's reading this LJ any more, but if you are, how're you doing? :)
Well. What have I been up to lately? ( Cut to save your flists. )
Well. What have I been up to lately? ( Cut to save your flists. )
Good to hear!
Not sure whether you saw my breakup with Stella last November; we're back together now, tentatively, and on slightly different terms (separate rooms, for starters). We'll be spending the two weeks in Denmark in June.
Yes, I did see the entries you put up around that time. It's good to hear you're both keen to work on things. Obviously the whole thing must have been catastrophic and it's not going to resolve without a lot of work, but I'm very glad to hear that's the way things are. I'm still wishing you much luck with it all. How are things going on that front? Has Amy been coping with the situation all right?
Next weekend, I'll be attending the fourth Language Creation Conference, in the Netherlands.
Oh yes? I've been seeing the adverts on conlangs. It sounds like a fun event! Have you heard anything about what the scale of it will be like? I hope you have a great time there. I can't make it, unfortunately, though on the upside I've decided to bite the bullet and attend this year's qep'a' in Reno.
Working in Essen occasionally now (like this week), so I've been spending a bit of time in hotel rooms since mid-February. But the main bit of that is over and trips here will be less frequent. (And basically on my schedule; they don't need me to show my face but I find it a good idea.)
Fair enough. While it's nice to travel a bit for work, by the same token it's also about staying in places that just aren't home. What is it you've been up to in Essen?
Sorry to hear about the back, the relationship, and the floods. How is poker?
Thank you. It's been a rough few months and I do have a sometimes alarming tendency to dwell on the negative, but I'm working through it all and starting to put my routine back together again. After the floods, and the heartbreak Ceridwen (the aforesaid woman) put me through, I sought the help of a counsellor for the first time, and I was truly surprised at how much it really did help. I haven't played poker since that phase of depression back in January, but I'm hoping to get back into that soon as well, once the back settles down.
jatlhchoHDI' tlhIngan Hol jatlh'a'? :)
mutlhu'qu'moHpu' DuHvetlh. :) I did seriously consider trying to speak with Elliot in Ubykh, Klingon or French, since the odds are against him ever picking up a second language elsewise given Australia's fierce monolingualism, but I decided I likely wouldn't be seeing him often enough for him to acquire any of them properly (and with Ubykh in particular I'm still not nearly fluent enough to be teaching it to a child). On that topic, how's Amy's English coming along? I read your post about it a couple of weeks ago. I've been following your "Amyisms" posts with some interest - I'd read some of Mark Rosenfelder's writing about L2 acquisition and how difficult it is with a limited array of stimuli, and it's intriguing to hear something about it being put into practice. You mentioned she's starting to run into disfluencies more often; does she get much exposure to English from elsewhere?
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She was, of course, crushed when we separated, but seems to have recovered.
Have you heard anything about what the scale of it will be like?
I've heard the number "40-50", but I'm not sure whether that was for the past LCCs or this one - the past ones being in the States would, of course, alter the the group of people likely to come.
Time-wise, it'll be two days (http://conference.conlang.org/lcc4/schedule.php).
I hope you have a great time there.
Thanks!
I wasn't quite sure what to expect... and to be honest, still am not even though I have a schedule to read now :) A couple of the talks look interesting, certainly, but I'm not sure whether everything will be my cup of tea. But that's the nature of conferences, I suppose.
I've decided to bite the bullet and attend this year's qep'a' in Reno.
I wonder whether I'll ever make it to one :)
I remember my qepHom'a'mey were a mixed bunch: some were good, some had a bit too much unstructured time for my liking. Part of the problem is that with a small group of people with widely differing levels of ability, it's hard to keep everyone interested at once. (And another part is that people differed not only in their level of ability but also in their level of interest; some seemed ambivalent about the actual "learning Klingon" bit.)
I likely wouldn't be seeing him often enough for him to acquire any of them properly
Quite possible. Even as a father who lives with the child, Amy's exposure to English is, perhaps, less than optimal.
(and with Ubykh in particular I'm still not nearly fluent enough to be teaching it to a child)
How's the vocabulary situation there? I remember one of the problems with Klingon was that, at the time, there was not even a word for "table", let alone "nappy".
Are there Ubykh words for things that children will likely be interested in talking about? For example, construction machines, various wild animals, articles of clothing, or baby paraphernalia such as dummies, nappies, bottles, and so on?
On that topic, how's Amy's English coming along?
Sometimes she's more fluent, sometimes less; I haven't specifically paid attention to whether it might be emotional or related to missing vocabulary and/or syntax.
She still seems to want to keep the two languages separate; while she'll often import syntax or idiom from German into English (or, less frequently, the other way around), this seems to be unconscious, and she doesn't borrow entire words unmodified (as opposed to loan translations) - in that case, she'll resort to strategies such as pausing to think, asking WH-questions about the missing word (e.g. "and when I gave Mummy a - what did I give Mummy?"), or explicitly mentioning the language ("There was an animal there. It's called 'ein X' in German."). She usually doesn't ask specifically (e.g. "How do you say 'X' in English?"), though she may do so if prompted to.
She seems to associate "speaking English" strongly with me, and seems reluctant to speak English to others (even more reluctant than her usual shyness in speaking with people she doesn't know well), even people such as her grandfather. (It doesn't help that he sometimes doesn't immediately understand her, either because he didn't happen to be paying attention, she was too quiet, or - especially when she was younger - her pronunciation.)
does she get much exposure to English from elsewhere?
No, little to none. She has a couple of English-language CDs that she listens to occasionally, but not much. And now that she's in pre-school rather than the bilingual kindergarten, she doesn't even hear English much during the day.
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She was, of course, crushed when we separated, but seems to have recovered.
I'm glad to hear that.
I wasn't quite sure what to expect... and to be honest, still am not even though I have a schedule to read now :) A couple of the talks look interesting, certainly, but I'm not sure whether everything will be my cup of tea. But that's the nature of conferences, I suppose.
Absolutely. There's always the chance that the spin on it won't be really to your taste, but at any rate it sounds like it'll be an interesting social event if nothing else. Is there an overarching theme to the conference, or is it really a bit small to be having such structure?
I wonder whether I'll ever make it to one :)
Well, there's already been one in Europe... why not another? :) Do you have plans to attend a qep'a' at some stage in the future?
To be honest, I suspect the success of the qepHom'a'mey may prove to be a double-edged sword. Lieven was telling me that last year's qepHom'a' was even bigger than the qep'a'na', and Marc Okrand has attended in the past. As such, I sense that Lawrence and the KLI in general may find the liabilities of holding another qep'a' in Europe to outweigh the benefits, since Europe really already has its own Klingon conference. It's much of a muchness to me - from here a flight to Europe's no more expensive than a flight to the US - but for the US contingent it makes a big logistic difference. I just wish Nick Nicholas were still in Melbourne so we'd have some leverage to push for a qep'a' here!
I remember my qepHom'a'mey were a mixed bunch: some were good, some had a bit too much unstructured time for my liking. Part of the problem is that with a small group of people with widely differing levels of ability, it's hard to keep everyone interested at once.
For sure. Even with a large gathering like the 30-odd people last year, it's a real challenge to structure the thing to keep everyone happy. That's one of the many reasons I'm shooting for qep'a' rather than the qepHom'a'; it seems the level of ability is more homogeneous among the qep'a' attendees.
(And another part is that people differed not only in their level of ability but also in their level of interest; some seemed ambivalent about the actual "learning Klingon" bit.)
Was that to do with the attendance of people from the Klingon ship guilds and such? I understand they comprise a large part of the European interest in Klingon culture.
She still seems to want to keep the two languages separate; while she'll often import syntax or idiom from German into English (or, less frequently, the other way around), this seems to be unconscious, and she doesn't borrow entire words unmodified (as opposed to loan translations) - in that case, she'll resort to strategies such as pausing to think, asking WH-questions about the missing word (e.g. "and when I gave Mummy a - what did I give Mummy?"), or explicitly mentioning the language ("There was an animal there. It's called 'ein X' in German.").
Interesting strategies! It's good that she seems to compartmentalise the two so well; I'd say that's a good sign.
No, little to none.
That's a shame, though by the sounds of things she's well fluent enough to be past the stage of language rejection (like what happened to Holtej). So if you continue speaking English with her, I imagine things should go swimmingly, and her shyness in speaking will likely wear off as she gets older.
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No, I don't think a specific theme was posited.
Perhaps, as you say, it might be difficult enough to get enough speakers as it is without asking them to conform to a particular topic.
Do you have plans to attend a qep'a' at some stage in the future?
I'm not sure. Throughout the years, I'll pick up a language, have an intense fascination with it, and then generally let it slide away (especially if another language strikes my fancy).
I think Klingon has gone that way: I'm still interested in it, but not so avidly as I once was. (Included here is that my fluency and vocabulary has markedly decreased since then.)
Plus I'm a bit afraid it'd be a conference that's not so much about the language, though I gather that's not as much of an issue with the qep'a'na'.
Was that to do with the attendance of people from the Klingon ship guilds and such? I understand they comprise a large part of the European interest in Klingon culture.
Yes, something like that. People interested in singing Klingon songs (sometimes in Klingon, more commonly in German) and/or in dressing up as a Klingon, for example, than in speaking like a Klingon.
by the sounds of things she's well fluent enough to be past the stage of language rejection (like what happened to Holtej)
I'm still curious to see what will happen once she starts school. I've heard that's another typical time for children to drop a language, as their vocabulary and field of discussion topics suddenly explodes and their weaker language fails to keep up.
I do think she's proud that she already knows a language that other children have to learn laboriously at school, though, so for this particular language I may be in luck :) We shall see.
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How's the vocabulary situation there? I remember one of the problems with Klingon was that, at the time, there was not even a word for "table", let alone "nappy". Are there Ubykh words for things that children will likely be interested in talking about? For example, construction machines, various wild animals, articles of clothing, or baby paraphernalia such as dummies, nappies, bottles, and so on?
Those vocabularies really vary by field. In Turkey the Ubykhs became agrarian about the mid-19th century, and the vocabulary's mostly what you'd expect from a mostly pre-industrial agricultural society of that time. The terms for vehicles with engines are neologisms; cars, trucks and buses are wɨʨʷ’ɜ́kʷ "iron wagon", planes are pɨrɐ́w "instrument for flying", and trains may be mɨʤɜ́ʁbɜ "fire boat", jɨʨʷɜʁbɜ "ground boat", or jɨʨʷɜmɨʤɜʁbɜ "ground fire boat". Since most construction was done by hand tools there's no term for any construction machine. Wild animal terms cover most of the main Eurasian types (wolf, fox, rabbit, badger, weasel, hyena, frog...) and the domestic animal vocabulary's very intricate, as expected for a farming society.
Clothing's well covered, though there are no terms for child-specific clothing; I'd likely use ʒʷɨqʲɜ́ "(piece of) cloth" for a nappy, and there is a generic term for "bottle": ʨʷ’ɜ́ntɜ. Specific children's vocabulary is very impoverished otherwise, though the words ʃɨk’lɐ́wɜ "see-saw" and kʷɨlɨʃɨk’lɐwɜ "(child's) swing", from kʷɨlɨ "chain" plus ʃɨk’lɐ́wɜ, are intriguing exceptions. I've also been lucky enough to work with an unpublished audio recording of Tevfik Esenç from the year before his death where he talks about a few terms used in baby-rearing, one of which is ʧɜbɜʦɨ́, a type of grain-and-milk porridge made especially for children that I imagine could be co-opted for "baby formula". But should I ever want to go on to raise a child speaking Ubykh, I'd probably have to do some borrowing and calquing from Turkish and/or Adyghe. Fortunately the NWC languages tend to construct very similar compounds for new concepts, so using other NWC languages as models for calques is very possible; for instance, the term jɨʨʷɜʁbɜ "ground boat" for "train" is paralleled by Abkhaz a-dʷə́ʁba "field boat", and mɨʤɜ́ʁbɜ "fire boat" by Adyghe meɕʷ’ekʷ "fire wagon".
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